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Thread: The Qur'an, the Bible and Islam.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    The Qur'an, the Bible and Islam.

    Beginning with the Torah the word of God says,
    Deuteronomy 8:3,
    . . . know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. . . .




    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber
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    Its not Muslims that have a problem---Its Christians who have the problem with this....
    It is juvenile and simplistic to think in binary terms of either/or, black/white---the Quranic world-view is far more sophisticated.

    Muslims believe in the One God, and Jews do so too---what Christians think they believe---that is upto them.....


    In any case, why would a Christian need the approval of the Quran (or of Muslims) for their belief in the trinity?
    As a Muslim, I am not particularly concerned if a Christian (or other non-Muslim) claims my belief is false...their opinions do not effect my faith....
    Last edited by siam; 07-05-2017 at 04:43 AM.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    Its not Muslims that have a problem---Its Christians who have the problem with this....
    It is juvenile and simplistic to think in binary terms of either/or, black/white---the Quranic world-view is far more sophisticated.

    Muslims believe in the One God, and Jews do so too---what Christians think they believe---that is upto them.....


    In any case, why would a Christian need the approval of the Quran (or of Muslims) for their belief in the trinity?
    As a Muslim, I am not particularly concerned if a Christian (or other non-Muslim) claims my belief is false...their opinions do not effect my faith....
    My friend, there are the laws of logic, as I presume you know. Sophisticated truth can be broken down to its simple components. Binary logic is basic in that something cannot both be true and false - unless it is somehow comprised of two different things - where for one of the things it is true and the other thing it needs to be false. And both things belonging to one thing. Otherwise the law of the excluded middle would mean that the one thing cannot be true.

    You cannot have a two sided triangle. Or a three sided square. These are obvious non sequiturs. Absurdities.

    Take note, I introduced the video with a citation from the Torah. The Prophet Jesus cites (see Matthew 4:4) that reference against Satan in dealing with that temptation, countering Satan's lie.

    My point in doing so, the Qur'an is believed by many to be God's holy word, is it not? Well here is the deal, Christians to be obedient to the teaching of Jesus being the Christ must live by the truths of the Torah and the Gospel. And on the premise the Qur'an is the word of God, must live by its words too. Unbelief does not negate the truth God's word one must live by.

    Now just saying what you did, needs to be helpful. If you have further truth - be a guide.

    The Christian New Covenant is built from the Old (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

    Untangle the alleged dilemma. Show that it is really not a dilemma. It is a matter of truth. What is and what is not.
    Last edited by 37818; 07-05-2017 at 02:40 PM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    My point in doing so, the Qur'an is believed by many to be God's holy word, is it not? Well here is the deal, Christians to be obedient to the teaching of Jesus being the Christ must live by the truths of the Torah and the Gospel. And on the premise the Qur'an is the word of God, must live by its words too. Unbelief does not negate the truth God's word one must live by.

    Untangle the alleged dilemma. Show that it is really not a dilemma. It is a matter of truth. What is and what is not.
    In the Quran, Jesus Christ advises kindness, respect for Parents---I don't know if the NT does or not---but for this example, let us presume that respect for Parents is a value we both share.
    some ways that this respect could be shown is to not harm our parents and to protect them from harm by others, to take care of their needs, to try to please them....etc...

    Quran 17: 23,24
    And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.

    And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."


    But what happens when our Parents "do wrong" or their actions might harm others or they ask us to do wrong/harm?
    To uphold Justice (with compassion and mercy) is the way of respecting and honoring our Parents...to guide them from going astray, or if they have already, then to encourage repentance...or if they ask us to do wrong---then to refuse.

    Quran Surah 4: 135
    O you who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, surely God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

    These 2 values are not contradictory--they are complementary.
    likewise, where the previous scriptures "go astray" or fall into error, the Quran must uphold truth and guide towards the right way.

    For us Muslims, we cannot give assent to polytheism, idolatry, injustice or inequality---even if Christians, with the best of intentions, try to convince us to do so....we must refuse.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    In the Quran, Jesus Christ advises kindness, respect for Parents---I don't know if the NT does or not---but for this example, let us presume that respect for Parents is a value we both share.
    some ways that this respect could be shown is to not harm our parents and to protect them from harm by others, to take care of their needs, to try to please them....etc...

    Quran 17: 23,24
    And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.

    And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."


    But what happens when our Parents "do wrong" or their actions might harm others or they ask us to do wrong/harm?
    To uphold Justice (with compassion and mercy) is the way of respecting and honoring our Parents...to guide them from going astray, or if they have already, then to encourage repentance...or if they ask us to do wrong---then to refuse.

    Quran Surah 4: 135
    O you who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, surely God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

    These 2 values are not contradictory--they are complementary.
    likewise, where the previous scriptures "go astray" or fall into error, the Quran must uphold truth and guide towards the right way.
    Changes the subject. And does not untangle the alleged dilemma.
    For us Muslims, we cannot give assent to polytheism, idolatry, injustice or inequality---even if Christians, with the best of intentions, try to convince us to do so....we must refuse.
    Genuine Christianity teaches against polytheism, idolatry and injustice.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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