Fanatics & Fundamentalists

[Scrawly]

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Please check them out and let me know what you think.

[Scrawly]

1 Corinthians 7:31 (and the surrounding passages) are definitely something to wrestle with. I think you've been hitting on some great points, and I've also been doing some thinking about the issue of possessions lately (I have bad OCD combined with impulsiveness and it's important for me to remember that do not need to become legalistic and start giving away everything I have, which I've thought about).

The fact that Paul also warns of marriage becoming an encumbrance in the surrounding verses suggests to me that this might be because of a specific situation going on; namely, persecution coming up. biblequery.org suggests that Paul is warning that the people will soon be persecuted and thus they shouldn't get caught up in the world (a situation which applies to any time). I think this is talking more about our priorities than promoting some sort of asceticism that would contradict Colossians 2:20-23.

For sure the context is certainly important, but it doesn't seem to take the edge of the fact that this world is passing away and the insistence to fix out eyes upon eternal things...seemingly at the expense of making a little kingdom here for ourselves, or even the world at large. We are not called to make this heaven on earth, we are called to be engrossed in matters of the kingdom and await the King who shall restore all things.

It just seems that the inescapable conclusion from the Scriptures is that Christian's are outcasts, strangers, and pilgrims just passing through and thus we ought to be prepared to bare the scorn of this world and the people of this world as a result, because for one, we are not contributing to the progress/betterment of humanity but forcing a dark-age, supernaturalistic worldview upon sophisticated modernity, in their eyes.

[KingsGambit]

we are not contributing to the progress/betterment of humanity but forcing a dark-age, supernaturalistic worldview upon sophisticated modernity, in their eyes.

That is some seriously loaded wording to describe the Good News. We have general principles about how our ultimate loyalty is meaning is for the Kingdom. I think you're extrapolating too far beyond this.

[Scrawly]

That is some seriously loaded wording to describe the Good News. We have general principles about how our ultimate loyalty is meaning is for the Kingdom. I think you're extrapolating too far beyond this.

Of course I don't see the good news as I described it. I am putting myself in the shoes of an unregenerate individual and reacting to such preaching as that posted in the videos. I think that is basically how an unregenerate person would react because Christianity does in fact put a damper on humanistic ambitions to create heaven on earth.

[KingsGambit]

Of course I don't see the good news as I described it. I am putting myself in the shoes of an unregenerate individual and reacting to such preaching as that posted in the videos. I think that is basically how an unregenerate person would react because Christianity does in fact put a damper on humanistic ambitions to create heaven on earth.

Okay, that makes sense now! I don't want you to think I was coming across as overly harsh there. The Bible does say that the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing, and we can't control how they view it. All we can do is model a form of love that is anything but dark.

[seanD]

&



Please check them out and let me know what you think.

The only thing I would disagree with about the first video is the idea that you can judge where another Christian stands in their faith just by observing how they presently live (it's more about the state of mind of a Christian than their actual possessions, and each Christian handles this differently). The second video; I couldn't make it past the melodramatic music. The third video basically hit the nail on the head, and I take it that his appeal to the extreme was just his way of getting the point across.

[Scrawly]

The only thing I would disagree with about the first video is the idea that you can judge where another Christian stands in their faith just by observing how they presently live (it's more about the state of mind of a Christian than their actual possessions, and each Christian handles this differently). The second video; I couldn't make it past the melodramatic music. The third video basically hit the nail on the head, and I take it that his appeal to the extreme was just his way of getting the point across.

Cool thanks for checking them out. But how do you think our modern society would look if left in the hands of men such as these? Would we have planes, trains, and automobiles (in the current modern form), computers, cell-phones, antibiotics, etc.?

[Dee Dee Warren]

1 Corinthians 7:31 (and the surrounding passages) are definitely something to wrestle with. I think you've been hitting on some great points, and I've also been doing some thinking about the issue of possessions lately (I have bad OCD combined with impulsiveness and it's important for me to remember that do not need to become legalistic and start giving away everything I have, which I've thought about).

The fact that Paul also warns of marriage becoming an encumbrance in the surrounding verses suggests to me that this might be because of a specific situation going on; namely, persecution coming up. biblequery.org suggests that Paul is warning that the people will soon be persecuted and thus they shouldn't get caught up in the world (a situation which applies to any time). I think this is talking more about our priorities than promoting some sort of asceticism that would contradict Colossians 2:20-23.

You answered that perfectly. Lydia wasn't told to stop selling purple (a luxury vanity item) or many of the other converts to flee from the world. The world and all that is in it belongs to God. This isn't some alien landscape, we are called to bring healing to all of life.

[seanD]

Cool thanks for checking them out. But how do you think our modern society would look if left in the hands of men such as these? Would we have planes, trains, and automobiles (in the current modern form), computers, cell-phones, antibiotics, etc.?

I don't think the preachers in the videos were necessarily concerned about the issue of science than just the general worldly issue. The problem with your question is that you're not looking at the history of this correctly. The founding fathers of science -- who were all Christian -- made discoveries hundreds of years ago that are still upheld to this day. So the answer to your question is yes. But the world has taken a dramatic turn away from God and the message of the gospel and become secular. That's the core issue here. And as result, I would guess that's why the negatives of science and technology today are pretty much equal with the positives of science and technology.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Cool thanks for checking them out. But how do you think our modern society would look if left in the hands of men such as these? Would we have planes, trains, and automobiles (in the current modern form), computers, cell-phones, antibiotics, etc.?

No we wouldn't. And women would die more from childbirth than anything else, and the average lifespan would be severely truncated.

I find it really hard to take seriously this discussion from people (this isn't a slam, it is an observation) who are working on computers that cost more than some people in the world make in a lifetime. Seriously.

[seanD]

You answered that perfectly. Lydia wasn't told to stop selling purple (a luxury vanity item) or many of the other converts to flee from the world. The world and all that is in it belongs to God. This isn't some alien landscape, we are called to bring healing to all of life.

John 14:17; John 15:19; Romans 12:2, 1 John 2:15, 1 John 3:1, etc., doesn’t seem to support your argument.

[Dee Dee Warren]

I'm sure you're right on some points. Although, I can't say that I agree with your tone. There's nothing "easy" or "retarded" about the sin struggle that men grapple with in a culture immersed in sexuality.

Good thing I didn't say that. I can't say I agree with your tone twisting my words. I said it was retarded to blame technology or act as if technology is making worse. It isn't. Sexual sin is very low tech. Please don't twist my words, that is almost a violation of the 9th commandment to insinuate that I made light of the struggle. I made light of where the blame is placed. I am actually incensed at the way you twisted my words, which means I probably should go offline for a while and cool off.

[Dee Dee Warren]

John 14:17; John 15:19; Romans 12:2, 1 John 2:15, 1 John 3:1, etc., doesn’t seem to support your argument.

I just love the "etc." Sweet.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Perhaps when I get some time I can post to some specific articles, but the guys over at Stand to Reason, www.str.org, have a very balanced view of this issue.

[seanD]

I just love the "etc." Sweet.

It's because I could post more (in fact, even more radical anti-worldly ones), but thought that would get the point across. It completely contradicts what you said.