Fanatics & Fundamentalists

[Scrawly]

It's because I could post more (in fact, even more radical anti-worldly ones), but thought that would get the point across. It completely contradicts what you said.

I really think i have to agree with you here. I also think I have to concede that if the world was still faithfully and Biblically Christian we would be living in abject primitivism. The point about the founding fathers of science is definitely a good one, however, I would like to know how many of them were Christian's of the fanatical flavor presented in the videos I posted.

[Scrawly]

Perhaps when I get some time I can post to some specific articles, but the guys over at Stand to Reason, www.str.org, have a very balanced view of this issue.

Yeah do this please, when you get them time. I probably couldn't locate topics on this issue in their archives.

[seanD]

I really think i have to agree with you here. I also think I have to concede that if the world was still faithfully and Biblically Christian we would be living in abject primitivism. The point about the founding fathers of science is definitely a good one, however, I would like to know how many of them were Christian's of the fanatical flavor presented in the videos I posted.

It's hard to get a grip on what you're defining as "fanatical." The preachers in the videos you posted didn't really say anything about science per se. They were making more of a general statement about worldly involvement. The problem is not so much being involved with a scientific and technological world. The problem is being involved in a predominantly secular world, and I think this is the perspective they were addressing it from.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Yeah do this please, when you get them time. I probably couldn't locate topics on this issue in their archives.

Do you listen to their podcast? It is excellent and very well balanced.

[Kristian Joense]

John 14:17; John 15:19; Romans 12:2, 1 John 2:15, 1 John 3:1, etc., doesn’t seem to support your argument.

I am confused, are you making an argument here? Wouldn't you need to, you know, actually exegete said passages and show how they don't support dizzle's argument? Has providing a list of verses suddenly become a good argument form while I wasn't noticing?

[seanD]

I am confused, are you making an argument here? Wouldn't you need to, you know, actually exegete said passages and show how they don't support dizzle's argument? Has providing a list of verses suddenly become a good argument form while I wasn't noticing?

I gave more of an "exegetical" approach earlier on in the discussion. I only took the extreme route and used anti-world passages in order to counter the opposite extreme, which denies those passages. And it wasn't just directed at what she said in that one post.

[theblueprint_Ni]

Good thing I didn't say that. I can't say I agree with your tone twisting my words. I said it was retarded to blame technology or act as if technology is making worse. It isn't. Sexual sin is very low tech. Please don't twist my words, that is almost a violation of the 9th commandment to insinuate that I made light of the struggle. I made light of where the blame is placed. I am actually incensed at the way you twisted my words, which means I probably should go offline for a while and cool off.

I didn't mean to misrepresent you, but that's how you came across. Before you use terms like that you should work harder to explain what you mean. Or better yet, don't even use them. You're being a little coarse toward the issue. I said a few other things that could have been addressed in addition to this one. Why you chose to stop here and accuse me of intentionally distorting your post is, I think, both unwarranted and a distraction.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Oh lord save me pietistic crap, it gives me a rash

PS shhhhh but not only men struggle with porn, why you purposefully excluded women.....


Oh no, don't object that is misrepresenting what you said. That would be unwarranted and a distraction.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Viewing passages differently in context isn't a denial.

[Dee Dee Warren]

I am confused, are you making an argument here? Wouldn't you need to, you know, actually exegete said passages and show how they don't support dizzle's argument? Has providing a list of verses suddenly become a good argument form while I wasn't noticing?

It is hidden in the "etc"

[Chrawnus]

I didn't mean to misrepresent you, but that's how you came across.

Actually, that's not how she came across, and I doubt anyone else than you saw it that way. It's pretty obvious when you read what she wrote that she didn't for one second trivialize the difficulty some people have with sexual sins, you only see it that way because you misread what she wrote. The way I understood it, what she was saying was that it was easy to blame sexual sins on technology (I'm assuming she means stuff like the internet), when the real issue is about lust, which doesn't go away simply because technology disappears. I personally had no problems understanding what her intent was.

[theblueprint_Ni]

Oh lord save me pietistic crap, it gives me a rash

PS shhhhh but not only men struggle with porn, why you purposefully excluded women.....


Oh no, don't object that is misrepresenting what you said. That would be unwarranted and a distraction.

OK.

Actually, that's not how she came across, and I doubt anyone else than you saw it that way. It's pretty obvious when you read what she wrote that she didn't for one second trivialize the difficulty some people have with sexual sins, you only see it that way because you misread what she wrote. The way I understood it, what she was saying was that it was easy to blame sexual sins on technology (I'm assuming she means stuff like the internet), when the real issue is about lust, which doesn't go away simply because technology disappears. I personally had no problems understanding what her intent was.

You could be right, so I'll admit I misunderstood and should have considered it a little longer before responding.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Chrawnus thank you. It really bothers me that we Christians so blithely read the worst into what someone said. Before I ever accused someone of saying such a thing I would read it ten times and hopefully ask for clarification first. Accusing someone of something despicable and then blaming them for it to boot is really low. It really bothered methat lob such things without thinking, so bless you.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Thank you blueprint, already forgotten.

[maudman]

When it comes to Fundamentalists I am not so much bothered by their theology, in fact I think they are radically Biblical and Pastors such as Paul Washer and Tim Conway are clearly the real deal – they not only talk the talk – they walk it too. I am generally impressed and thankful for their devotion to Christ and the Gospel and their faithfulness and careful handling of the Biblical text, which manifests in their expository, passionate sermons. They also seem to have more supernatural encounters, be it demonic opposition or miracles of God, which isn’t surprising considering the above.

OK, with that said, there is a concern that I have with fanatical preaching and living. After listening to a sermon by Tim Conway in which he was going on about the designs of the devil and how we should guard ourselves against his schemes; he proposed one of the ways should be that our thoughts be utterly consumed with Christ and if anything gets in the way of that then we should exercise spiritual amputation.

Of course, he elaborated more on this, but I couldn’t help but think that if everyone in our modern society sat under the preaching of such men and took their messages to heart and action, then we would all probably still be riding on horse-back. Let me illustrate with an example, say Steve Jobs was a Christian and attended Tim Conway’s Church faithfully every Sunday. Steve also got these amazing technological ideas for the iPad, iPhone, iTouch, etc. It seems to me that such preaching from Tim Conway would discourage Steve Jobs from pursuing such “worldly enhancements” and thus categorize it as perhaps a distraction from the devil – Steve would be pulled away from Studying the Scriptures, evangelizing, prayer, etc. because he would be too focused on his “technological baby” in the here and now, and thus, his eternal perspective would start to deteriorate due to the cares of this world. Or take another example – if this sort of preaching was accepted and put into practice would we ever have airplanes? After all, if God wanted us to fly, He would’ve given us wings…See what I’m saying? If we prioritize doing basically only that which has eternal value, how would our modern society look? Would we be enjoying all these technological and medical advancements or would we still be living in a primitive world consumed with winning souls? Because it seems to me that according to Fundamentalist fanatics - the earth is little more than a disposable lump awaiting true transformation once eternity is ushered in and Christ makes all things new.

Hello Scrawly..
Interesting topic.. And it is one that is universally discussed and we kinda get the feeling like we have heard this all before.. I guess throughout history there are those who are always bringing about new things and there are those who take things to the Nth Level..

One of my favorite verses for this topic is Christ saying: ""With All things come good and evil"" It's really when does something go from Good to Evil and Vice verse... Often times people are motivated for various reasons and often that is the case for us all.. That often is what happing with people when the attack a specific thing as if its evil.. Christ statement tells that there isn't any one such evil thing but rather anything can be a potential problem.. Fundi's most often are easily identified as such people..

There are different strokes for different folks.. Just as there are different people with different reasons that motivate.. Some people speak out to raise an awareness that something is wrong.. Some will narrow mindedly make things into what they want.. Some do it because they are losing their grip on the world.. Generally that is when it becomes the topic of the day.. Two strange scenario's in the Bible from statements like.. ""This world is passing away"" Few seem to know what it was suppose to look like after it was gone? Second, which cares were we suppose to get caught up in?

For the Israelite/Jewish hearers of the Day we should be able to identify what was going down in most cases.. First rule of translation.. Who's talking? And who's being talked to? It's Israel's Messiah don't forget.. And it's their world that is fixing to go away. Too often people today pick up the Bible and read it out of context.. Christ was being specific at times.. Folks generalize when they shouldn't and they're specific when it's not.. People read into things their Motivating praxis.. Gods will becomes theirs? What God meant is what they mean? Actually they make God out in their image and their likeness. The world often meant different things at different times. The world can be any number of things that keep us from becoming the Children of God if that is our calling? But not all are chosen. Too God so put it in the world that we would be without excuse.. That was said then and I guess it still rings true today? So there were things in the world but he was talking to Jews for the most part.. He was their messiah.. Often suffering is at the heart of matters.. It's one of the most important aspects of the christen faith in that we share with the world because no one is immune from suffering..

Peace and Godbless