More on the RCC

[jo7241974]

The "data" comes from the Church, but the interpretation comes from you. Anyone who put a modicum of effort into it could find entirely reasonable explanations for the statements you've twisted around. The fact that you are either unable or unwilling to look for such explanations says more about you than it does about Catholicism.

Are you able to apply this same excuse when you put down LDS beliefs?

BTW, I do not merely quickly scan articles that come from the Vatican or from the Catholic Encyclopedia. I actually read all that they have written. (And I thought I was verbose) I have put in more than a modicum of effort to understand what they are saying. If you are having trouble accepting my "interpretations" which come directly from the RCC, I would suggest you talk to a Catholic Priest.

Love,

jo

[eudyptes]

As stated by Cath:

Not to mention Speaking as a Catholic we do not Worship the Cross when we kneel before it, Kiss it, or pray before it, we Worship WHO it represents and Kiss who it represents. Jesus!!!!!

I have yet to see faithful LDS worshipping, kneeling before, kissing, or praying before an inanimate object which is supposed to represent Jesus or Heavenly Father. Hence, since we do not do any of these things before the statue of Moroni, I think your attempt to make it look like we do to be an extremely misleading and lame argument.

Love,

jo

emphasis mine
sums up most everything you've posted in this thread....you might want to research the difference between an icon and and idol....vastly different. Used properly an icon is something that helps one worship the Living God (in all three persons). Not everyone uses one, but there is nothing wrong with an icon.

[jo7241974]

Why do you baptize dead people?

If you have ever really paid attention to our responses before about baptisms for the dead, you would realize we are not trying to contact them.

Love,

jo

[Cerebrum123]

If you have ever really paid attention to our responses before about baptisms for the dead, you would realize we are not trying to contact them.

Love,

jo

What does that have to do with ANYTHING eudyptes said?

[jo7241974]

I've been pledging allegiance to the flag for 20 years. I had no idea this meant I was allying with the united states government. I assumed our society just really respected dyed cloth

Thank heavens our flag does not represent God!!

Love,

jo

[Cow Poke]

Thank heavens our flag does not represent God!!

Love,

jo

Jo,

What is the PURPOSE of the pretend angel on top of your temples?

[eudyptes]

What does that have to do with ANYTHING eudyptes said?

it was a nonanswer to mossy's question not mine.....

[Cerebrum123]

it was a nonanswer to mossy's question not mine.....

Oops, it looked like she was responding to you.

[jo7241974]

One Bad Pig;3401206]

This is not the stance of the RCC today. You are also mischaracterizing it. The pope believed that, as the vicar of Christ, anyone not subject to him was not following Christ.

That's interesting. Since the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, can you tell me if it was man who changed his stance, or was it Christ who changed His "stance". If it was NOT Christ who changed His stance, then you are admitting that the Popes have been misrepresenting Christ. To which I reply, thank you!!

That's an ... interesting misapprehension of the meaning of the Real Presence commingled with decontextualized interpretation of scripture. Nobody believes that, jo. Sorry.

Actually, this was one of the biggest reasons for the Great Schism. Are you telling me that the Eastern Orthodox Churches didn't believe that the RCC believes this?

Also, I thought I would point out quickly concerning idols, in response to the link you provided, the RCC conveniently neglected to provide information on what happened to the bronze serpent which Moses had been instructed to create:

2 Kings 18:4 (KJV) (btw, this is teaching us what the Prophet, Hezekiah, had to do)

He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

Why would the RCC not include this??

Love,

jo

[mossrose]

If you have ever really paid attention to our responses before about baptisms for the dead, you would realize we are not trying to contact them.

Love,

jo

Wasn't asking if you try to contact dead people. Was asking why you baptize them.

[Thersites]

Are you able to apply this same excuse when you put down LDS beliefs?

When exactly have I put down LDS beliefs?

What have I said that merits comparison to your malicious twisting of these documents?

BTW, I do not merely quickly scan articles that come from the Vatican or from the Catholic Encyclopedia. I actually read all that they have written. (And I thought I was verbose) I have put in more than a modicum of effort to understand what they are saying. If you are having trouble accepting my "interpretations" which come directly from the RCC, I would suggest you talk to a Catholic Priest.

Love,

jo

When you say things like that, it makes it very hard for me to tell the difference between you and the dozen ignorant anti-Catholics I've encountered over the years, and, well, I just can't take that sort of person seriously. You've definitively proven that you have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about, but then again, I can't blame you. I can't blame you because you actually don't care about the truth of the matter; you're only interested in this topic as a way of scoring rhetorical points. If you were actually interested in Catholic theology, we could have a fun and fruitful conversation, but... ah well.

[jo7241974]

JO - FYI the doctrine of infallibility does not mean that the pontiff cannot sin. It means that any doctrine he promulgates is inerrant.
As a consequence to keep him infallible, the church has often declared pontiffs to be anti-popes when it decides they were wrong.

Hello RevTestament,

I understand that this is what the RCC leadership say; but I find instances in their history where they have "decided" that a Pope (like Honorius I) had not acted "ex cathedra". However, even members of RCC heirarchy and learned Theologians still argue that what Honorius signed DOES reside in the definition of ex cathedra. Thus, it appears to me that the RCC "says" one thing, but "does" something entirely in opposition to their own beliefs in order to convince themselves and the world that the Institution of the RCC has never strayed.

BTW, I cannot recall one instance in the Bible where a Prophet of God ever changed the teachings of another Prophet and make the claim that the prior Prophet was incorrect when speaking for the Lord. Nor have I seen Apostles (like Peter as a prime example) change the teachings of Christ and what was considered scripture during their lifetime. I never saw anyone in the Bible; either OT or NT delete the second commandment.

Love,

jo

[jo7241974]

emphasis mine
sums up most everything you've posted in this thread....you might want to research the difference between an icon and and idol....vastly different. Used properly an icon is something that helps one worship the Living God (in all three persons). Not everyone uses one, but there is nothing wrong with an icon.

Eudyptes,

Here is Merriam Webster's definition for Icon (emphasis mine):

1: a usually pictorial representation : image
2 [Late Greek eikōn, from Greek] : a conventional religious image typically painted on a small wooden panel and used in the devotions of Eastern Christians
3: an object of uncritical devotion : idol
4: emblem, symbol <the house became an icon of 1960's residential architecture — Paul Goldberger>
5a: a sign (as a word or graphic symbol) whose form suggests its meaning b : a graphic symbol on a computer display screen that usually suggests the type of object represented or the purpose of an available function

It appears to me that when "icon" is used for religious intent, that it IS an idol.

Love,

jo

[jo7241974]

What does that have to do with ANYTHING eudyptes said?

Hmmm.....my post was in response to Moss Rose....not to Eudyptes...

Love,

jo

[jo7241974]

Wasn't asking if you try to contact dead people. Was asking why you baptize them.

As we have presented countless times, we are performing necessary ordinances for a person to be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom perchance they are deemed worthy by God to enter that level of Heaven. It is up to that person to accept or not accept the work being performed on their behalf. BTW, this is off-topic.

Love,

jo