One or three and a human too?

[shunyadragon]

What is the Jewish doctrine of G-d?

As described in Shema

What is the Christian doctrine of G-d?

As described in the Dogma of the Trinity in most traditional Churches

[headheart]

God is one, indivisible, and ultimately unknowable. God cannot be defined in anthropomorphic terms as a Triune God.

No, it is a version of the predominant Christina doctrine.

As described in Shema

As described in the Dogma of the Trinity in most traditional Churches

Please present commensurate comments or take a walk in the park.

[Chrawnus]

God is one, indivisible, and ultimately unknowable. God cannot be defined in anthropomorphic terms as a Triune God.

Anthropomorphism is basically attributing human characteristics to someone/something that is not human. Could you explain to me how the idea of a trinity is a human characteristic? Are you saying that humans are triune by nature?

[Tanakh Keeper]

But Judeo-Christian as it's commonly used refers to the belief that both traditions worship the same God and share sacred texts, a belief that's arguably incorrect.

The beliefs of Christianity are all over the place. Individual adherent's have a huge variation in their beliefs. So it's really impossible to respond to your sentence without qualifying it. Also, christians have their own bible which is different than the Hebrew bible. So while some Christians may worship the same god as us, its a no-brainer that they don't have the same bible as us.

I'd say Christians that don't believe that Jesus is a god, worship the same G-d as Judaism. Otherwise, Christians and Jews worship different gods.

[Chrawnus]

Also, where is the option "Three persons in one being, one of the person having a human nature in addition to his divine nature?"

[Tanakh Keeper]

Close. I'm interested in examining the Jewish teaching about G-d and Thomas Aquinas's idea of 'God as the Uncaused Cause'

Peace,
Eric

I was unable to open your link, to give you a Jewish perspective. I'll try to remember to look later on a different computer.

[headheart]

I was unable to open your link, to give you a Jewish perspective. I'll try to remember to look later on a different computer.

There's a presentation of what's there at Wikipedia Online > Thomas Acquinas > Nature of God

Peace,
Eric.

[Tanakh Keeper]

What is the Jewish doctrine of G-d?

What is the Christian doctrine of G-d?

Shalom,
Eric.

I won't touch on the Christian understanding, that's outside my pay grade.

I will give some Jewish doctrines about G-d:

G-d is the Creator of everything, is perfect in every manner of existence, and is the Primary cause of all that exists.
G-d is the only Creator. G-d has absolute Unity and is absolutely Unique. There is none like G-d. There is nothing in all of Creation that can be compared to G-d.
G-d is non-corporeal. G-d can’t be affected by any physical occurrence.
G-d never changes. G-d is, as G-d always has been. G-d is eternal.
G-d has a personal relationship with all. No mediators are needed to have a relationship with G-d.
G-d is merciful. G-d is omniscient.

Hmm...that'll do for now.

[headheart]

I was unable to open your link, to give you a Jewish perspective. I'll try to remember to look later on a different computer.

I should have tried to summarize what I'd read and here's how they've done it at W.O.E:

Concerning the nature of God, Thomas felt the best approach, commonly called the via negativa, is to consider what God is not. This led him to propose five statements about the divine qualities:

1. God is simple, without composition of parts, such as body and soul, or matter and form.

2. God is perfect, lacking nothing. That is, God is distinguished from other beings on account of God's complete actuality. Thomas defined God as the ‘Ipse Actus Essendi subsistens,’ subsisting act of being.

3. God is infinite. That is, God is not finite in the ways that created beings are physically, intellectually, and emotionally limited. This infinity is to be distinguished from infinity of size and infinity of number.

4. God is immutable, incapable of change on the levels of God's essence and character.

5. God is one, without diversification within God's self. The unity of God is such that God's essence is the same as God's existence. In Thomas's words, "in itself the proposition 'God exists' is necessarily true, for in it subject and predicate are the same."

Peace,
Eric.

[headheart]

I won't touch on the Christian understanding, that's outside my pay grade.

I will give some Jewish doctrines on G-d:

G-d is the Creator of everything, is perfect in every manner of existence, and is the Primary cause of all that exists.
G-d is the only Creator. G-d has absolute Unity and is absolutely Unique. There is none like G-d. There is nothing in all of Creation that can be compared to G-d.
G-d is non-corporeal. G-d can’t be affected by any physical occurrence.
G-d never changes. G-d is, as G-d always has been. G-d is eternal.
G-d has a personal relationship with all. No mediators are needed to have a relationship with G-d.
G-d is merciful. G-d is omniscient.

Thank you very much.
Peace,
Eric.

[Tanakh Keeper]

Concerning the nature of God, Thomas felt the best approach, commonly called the via negativa, is to consider what God is not. This led him to propose five statements about the divine qualities:

1. God is simple, without composition of parts, such as body and soul, or matter and form.

2. God is perfect, lacking nothing. That is, God is distinguished from other beings on account of God's complete actuality. Thomas defined God as the ‘Ipse Actus Essendi subsistens,’ subsisting act of being.

3. God is infinite. That is, God is not finite in the ways that created beings are physically, intellectually, and emotionally limited. This infinity is to be distinguished from infinity of size and infinity of number.

4. God is immutable, incapable of change on the levels of God's essence and character.

5. God is one, without diversification within God's self. The unity of God is such that God's essence is the same as God's existence. In Thomas's words, "in itself the proposition 'God exists' is necessarily true, for in it subject and predicate are the same."

I'd agree with all those. It's interesting that this fellow considers what G-d isn't. I've seen similar writings in the Talmud.

[shunyadragon]

Anthropomorphism is basically attributing human characteristics to someone/something that is not human. Could you explain to me how the idea of a trinity is a human characteristic? Are you saying that humans are triune by nature?

No, humans are not triune in nature, and I never even hinted at this. The basic fundamental Trinitarian belief describes God as the incarnate Son and God the Father in specific anthropomorphic terms as to what is God

[Chrawnus]

Right, I'll take a shot at this. This will necessarily be my own understanding of God, but I do not believe it strays from orthodox (small o) Christian understanding of God's nature.

God is not three separate gods.

There's only one God.

Within the Godhood there exists three persons, or if one is uncomfortable with the term "person", three centers of consciousness. (I.e three minds)

These three persons are one in nature, will, and essence.

The first of the three persons is the Father. He is uncreated and unbegotten, and is God in and of himself. The Father is eternal, and is the source of His own existence. The Father is unknowable and unapproachable, except through the Son. He is fully God, in and of Himself.

The second person is the Son. As the Word and Wisdom of God he is begotten by the Father, but He is not uncreated. The Son is eternal, but he is not the source of His own existence, but derives his existence and nature from the Father. At one point in time the Son took upon Himself human nature and was born to the virgin Mary. To know the Son is to know the Father. He is fully God, by virtue of having His source from the Father. He is also fully human.

The third person is the Holy Spirit. He is uncreated and unbegotten. He is not, however, the source of His own existence, but eternally proceeds from the Father. Through the power of the Holy Spirit the Son incarnated as a human. The Holy Spirit gives life, and indwells all true believers. He is fully God, by virtue of having his source from the Father.

Even though the Father is the source of the Son and the Spirit there is no ontological hierarchy between the three persons. All of them are equal in nature and essence. That being said, there is a relational subordination, being that the Father sends the Son, and the Father and the Son sends the Spirit.

God is love.

Also, I'm going to take some of Tanakh Keepers points (those that I think are in agreement with Christian thought) and modify them where I think they differ from how Christians see it. And lastly, when TK writes G-d he obviously doesn't mean it in the sense of the Godhood consisting of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That is however, how my modified list should be understood.

G-d is the Creator of everything, is perfect in every manner of existence, and is the Primary cause of all that exists.

G-d is the only Creator. There is none like G-d. There is nothing in all of Creation that can be compared to G-d.

G-d is non-corporeal, except the Son, who incarnated as a man. The Father and the Spirit can’t be affected by any physical occurrence.

G-d never changes. G-d is, as G-d always has been. G-d is eternal.

G-d has a personal relationship with all (Here I'm not in full agreement. While I do think that He [The Father] wants a personal relationship with all, I do not believe that He has a personal relationship with all, simply because everyone does not want, or even know, that they can have a personal relationship with Him. I also disagree with the notion that one does not need a mediator to approach God, but the matter becomes a bit complicated, since the mediator is God himself, because the Son works as the mediator between humanity and the Father. Hopefully this didn't confuse all too many people).

G-d is merciful. G-d is omniscient.

[Chrawnus]

No, humans are not triune in nature, and I never even hinted at this. The basic fundamental Trinitarian belief describes God as the incarnate Son and God the Father in specific anthropomorphic terms as to what is God

The basic fundamental Trinitarian belief does not describe God as the incarnate Son. The doctrine of the Incarnation is another doctrine altogether. It's clear that you have no idea of what you're speaking about when it comes to the Trinity.

But you could be correct about your claim that basic fundamental Trinitarian belief describes God as the Son and God the father in specific anthropomorphic terms as to what is God, but you'll have to give examples of that and show through analysis that what is meant by those terms actually qualifies as being anthropomorphic.

[Chrawnus]

I suppose I would have to say it's three separate gods or one composite. Sometimes it's difficult to decide which is really more accurate.

If you're talking about orthodox Christianity, none of them are correct.