May 2012 Screwballs

[Manwë Súlimo]

The Bible is so derivative. It's written in the same language as every other document of that time and place. Obviously immoral.

[jpholding]

Gee, LA can't see to let this one go (now on Symph's vid):

I think you're right when you identify Holding as a megalomaniac and narcissist. His primary motivation is clearly to engage in venom and contempt on a regular basis---are there many days when he doesn't?

When reminded of the scriptural instruction to "be gentle as doves", Mr Holding's interpretation was "according to metaphorical lexicons of the period, doves were reputed as vicious fighters...Jesus' words there are closer to my methods than you may realize."

I think I'm right to identify LA as a monomaniac.

And, anti-screwie to this commenter, evidently to Symph wondering why he finds FAs so sweet and reasonable:

MPaulHolmes: Just laying a little innocent smack down on some incredibly ignorant hateful people who can't be bothered to actually study the Bible. If Symph Controversy finds people kind and easy going, it's because he may not be making them think.

[jpholding]

YT whiner videoguy604, on my Jephthah vid:

You exceed the Holocaust deniers in your ability to try to spin evil as good and any moral person sees right through it.

And then:

Respond to this video...

"Comment Pending Approval" What a surprise, Youtube Christians make East Germany look like a 1st amendment free speech paradise...

What a bunch of whiners.

[TolkienFan]

Screwball to Richard Dawkins.

Commenting on a plan to put a copy of the KJV in every English school as part of the 400th anniversary celebrations -- he likes the idea, saying that schoolchildren can see for themselves that the Bible is a poor guide to morality -- he is quoted by the BBC as adding,

"The whole King James Bible is littered with literary allusions, almost as many as Shakespeare (to quote that distinguished authority Anon, the trouble with Hamlet is it's so full of clichees)."

Among the examples he used to illustrate his point were: the salt of the earth; go the extra mile; I wash my hands of it; filthy lucre; through a glass darkly; wolf in sheep's clothing; hide your light under a bushel; and no peace for the wicked.

I expect that "clichees" is the BBC's mis-spelling, and I expect Dawkins thought he was being tongue-in-cheek clever, but that 'the Bible is full of cliches' joke is old and tired. And it just reinforces those who expect him to misunderstand totally, and to get things back to front...

David

Indeed, the criticism that something is "cliche" has itself become a cliche and tends to show that the critic is only using the term to dress up their banality in a pseudo-sophisticated tone.

[Hamster]

YT whiner videoguy604, on my Jephthah vid:



And then:



What a bunch of whiners.

Can't believe my trite comparison to the holocaust was censored.. this must be what Gandhi felt like

[Jnthn]

Non-screwball.
April 3, 33AD Jesus crucifixtion date
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...pels-date.html

I saw that in my RSS feed, but given that the article was in the Daily Fail I didn't want to condescend to posting in the comments section.

Biggest problem with this date is the likelihood that the BC/AD dating system may be incorrectly callibrated and that Jesus' birth year is possibly between 4-6BC by the current system.

J

[Cerebrum123]

Ansgar Seraph is criticizing J.P. Holding's refutation of Seely regarding the "firmament". I thought that you guys might want to see this one.

Holding has never much impressed me. His cart is all too often put before his horses. Take this example:

http://creation.com/is-the-raqiya-fi...t-a-solid-dome
There is a flaw in this line of reasoning as well. Seely has asserted that the ‘air’ or ‘space’ which surrounds us is ‘intangible,’ and this is correct from a strictly phenomenal point of view. But in actuality, the ‘air’ and ‘space’ around and above us is not strictly ‘intangible’ at all. It is rather composed of gas molecules (oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc.) that are too small for us to feel or otherwise perceive unaided, and further out into space there is a wide variety of material such as spaceborne dust, gases, and so on. There is no reason why ‘made’ should be an inappropriate verb for the creation of such things, unless Seely can show elsewhere that creation of something similar required a different verb—and that he certainly cannot do, unless he has some hidden passages in the Old Testament up his sleeve. This is indeed a key problem for Seely’s thesis: he has no way of proving that raqiya‘ would not also be used for the creation of something made of gas, dust, or liquid because he has no comparison points within the text of the Old Testament to offer.

© source where applicable

Whereas Seely is working inside the text, armed with knowledge of what contemporary cosmologists thought about the sky, Holding, being just as bound as Seely is to the idea that God had to be separating something in the sky, argues that the author(s) of the Creation account recorded that God was separating atomic elements invisibly suspended in the air! Not that he or they would understand what was being recorded:

Ibid
Now I am by no means asserting that the human writer of Genesis 1 had some knowledge of terrestrial gases or extraterrestrial objects; that is not the point. That author (and later readers) could very well have understood the raqiya‘ as Seely supposes; but in being inspired to say that a raqiya‘ was ‘made’, without saying anything about its nature, the word permits us today to recognize the raqiya‘ for what it most likely is: An ‘expanse’ of terrestrial gases—or perhaps also extraterrestrial matter within our solar system or throughout space.

© source where applicable

So Holding, grasping to inerrancy as hard as he can, makes numerous attempts in his essay to dismiss Seely's argument by saying that God knew the technical details of what was being written but hid such knowledge for the authors so that what they misunderstood in the recorded history would be seen by us moderns as accurate descriptions of atomic theory.

It's simply not a believable argument — it's certainly not plausible. It's the opposite of Occam's Razor in a situation that the Razor was made for.

—Sam

Anyway, I would like to see a response to this one.

[jpholding]

Anyway, I would like to see a response to this one.

I'd like to see an actual argument from him. All he does is re-assert Seely's arguments which I refuted.

[Cerebrum123]

I'd like to see an actual argument from him. All he does is re-assert Seely's arguments which I refuted.

I know you don't do arguments on evolution, so I won't even ask, but if you want to know the full context of the discussion the first page of it is here http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...Who-wrote-this
His comment that I posted above is near the very end, and he actually argues in support of the Documentary Hypothesis . He also uses the ANE cosmological hypothesis to support his views.

[jpholding]

Symph Dumbo prepares his gravesite:

Yeah, it's just so obvious where he's coming from. He keeps saying that because Jesus and the Apostles were harsh with people at times, that somehow validates his behavior. There's a difference between correcting people you have been around and know very well who are doing something very wrong, and just walking around with an coat of arrogance and condescension all the time, labeling and grouping and mocking people you don't even know through youtube comments. New response is coming :)

Well I can see we'll soon have a lesson in how, in the social world of the Bible, people didn't know each other "very well" at all. I guess he didn't read the Forge post. And gee -- where's those texts showing Jesus and the Pharisees going out and having beers every night for the prior 10 years?

Should be great. I expected him to make even more mistakes if he responded, and he's well on his way.


And, LA has shown his hand -- it's an old, crusty one as expected:

UK, I intended for you to guess that it would be Holding's "metaphorical vicious doves." Sorry I wasn't clear. Thanks for being willing to play along.

Yeah, UKC, he knows quite well I changed on that. But he doesn't care -- obsession and momomania never does.

[One Bad Pig]

Screwball to former Methodist minister Teresa MacBain for coming out as an atheist at an American Atheists convention. Screwball to NPR as well, for starting a series on losing faith (your tax dollars at work).

[KingsGambit]

I'm not much a fan of NPR at all, even political bias notwithstanding (and my objection to using public funds to pay for such programming).. I get the impression that it's aimed at an rich East Coast demographic (except for Car Talk). State public radio stations generally do a little better because they have local audiences in mind. I recently was driving across Iowa and did enjoy listening to an program on Iowa Public Radio.

[Sparko]

Had the chocolate been sacrificed to any idols first?

Btw, I used to fast when I was younger. Can no longer do it though. Get severe, blinding migraines and light-headedness at the end of the second day.

Yeah I can't do it anymore either cuz fasting makes me hungry.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Remember Johnny Be Dumb from Amazon? The Monk who was whining on JPH's treatment of mage went to my review of "The Magic of Reality" just to rant about me. Here's what Johnny Be Dumb said in response.

I cataloged a series of fallacies myself. I carried on not just to wipe the floor with the guy, but rather to expose him for the fraud he was to freethinkers reading this. Of course I knew there would be a few Christians "behind the bushes" ready to try to pick up the broken pieces after his miserable, epic fail of a performance in hopes to do better, but when they do, nothing changes..The best they will give us is "I think amazon is having a sale on Pampers, check it out."

Thanks Monk-

Talk about delusional. Johnny couldn't wipe the floor if he had a swiffer.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1Y01WN...x29GSZ26X9F40S

[rogue06]

Yeah I can't do it anymore either cuz fasting makes me hungry.

The last time I did it the resulting headache was so bad I couldn't open my eyes. Someone finally handed me a cinnamon bun and with each bite the pain vanished. Haven't fasted since then (that was the mid 80s).