Is This Where Godless Philosophy Natural Leads?

[seer]

Yes, but unlike you he didn't have this unpleasant "We Americans are so great and praiseworthy, and you should totally grovel in the dirt and kiss our feet" attitude that you're exuding.

You are simply bias. I do not want anyone to kiss our feet - but how about a little less America bashing and just a touch of graditude...

[Chrawnus]

You are simply bias. I do not want anyone to kiss our feet - but how about a little less America bashing and just a touch of graditude...

Biased*.

And I'm not bashing America in any way, I'm bashing you. And to be frank, if Americans in general acted like you you'd have forfeited any rights to gratitude, whatever you might have done to deserve it in the past.

[seer]

Biased*.

And I'm not bashing America in any way, I'm bashing you. And to be frank, if Americans in general acted like you you'd have forfeited any rights to gratitude, whatever you might have done to deserve it in the past.

Whatever...

[pancreasman]

You are simply bias. I do not want anyone to kiss our feet - but how about a little less America bashing and just a touch of graditude...

If it is wrong to blame the present generation of Americans for the sins of past generations (lynching for example) it is wrong for a current generation to take credit for the courageous actions of a former one.

[ZackMartin]

Yeah, and the reason Russia never rolled over the rest of Europe was because of America's military spending! We protected them so they did not have to protect themselves, and have their social programs.

Sorry seer, Cold War is over, and has been over for more than two decades now.

Besides, many American estimates of Soviet military and economic power we know now were grossly inflated. Part of this was due to the Soviets (best that your enemy believes you are stronger than you really are), and partly due to Americans (the more powerful you make the Soviet's look, the more vested interests can justify military spending.)

And the vast majority of unfunded debt in this nation is due to social programs.

Evidence?

And if we really were an Empire Zack we would have never given Europe or Japan back.

The Americans, just like the Europeans, came to the conclusion that imperialism wasn't worth it. So America gave up several of its colonies (e.g. Philippines), just as Europeans in the end gave up many of theirs willingly (although others they put up a fight to keep.)

And are you from Australia? Just remember if it wasn't for us you would be speaking Japanese today. Ungrateful...

Do you have any idea about the geography of Australia? Do you have any idea about the vast logistical challenges the Japanese would have faced in trying to invade Australia? The Japanese thought about invading Australia, and realised it was impractical. Even in the unlikely event Japan had tried, and the even more unlikely event that they didn't fail completely, the most they could realistically have achieved (and all even the most optimistic of Japanese generals thought they might achieve) would be conquest of the northern half of the continent, not the southern population centres where I and my ancestors (and those of most other Australians) lived. Even if America had kept out of the war completely. And of those in the Japanese military who wanted to invade Australia, their main argument was that the US would use Australia as a base to counterattack the Japanese in the north. Without US involvement in the war, the motivation for a Japanese invasion would be eliminated.

So, if the US kept out of WW2... much of Southeast Asia might speak Japanese, and much of Europe might speak German... but very unlikely we would speak Japanese here in Australia, other than as a foreign language for trade and diplomacy. (And quite a few Australians speak Japanese anyway - it is one of the more popular foreign languages here to study, although not as popular as it once was - Chinese is overtaking Japanese, as the Chinese economy rises and Japan's future looks not so bright.)

[seer]

If it is wrong to blame the present generation of Americans for the sins of past generations (lynching for example) it is wrong for a current generation to take credit for the courageous actions of a former one.

Well our past sins were brought up first. Second, I enlisted in the Marine Corps during the Vietnam war - whether you think that war helped stem the tide of communism is an open question. But my generation and our tax dollars were on the fore of the cold war. Like I said, without the American Military the Russian bear would have eaten western Europe. Yes, my country has its sins but as a whole it has been a force for good in the world - I'm tired of ingrates, whose present day freedoms are most likely the result of what these past American generations did. To be exact, my father, my uncles, their friends. It is not ancient history for them.

[seer]

Sorry seer, Cold War is over, and has been over for more than two decades now.

Besides, many American estimates of Soviet military and economic power we know now were grossly inflated. Part of this was due to the Soviets (best that your enemy believes you are stronger than you really are), and partly due to Americans (the more powerful you make the Soviet's look, the more vested interests can justify military spending.)

Nonsense, at one point they had more nukes, more soliders, tanks etc... There was no way western Europe could have stopped Russia with out American help.

Evidence?

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart

Look at health care, welfare, and education - these are the largest drivers of debt.

The Americans, just like the Europeans, came to the conclusion that imperialism wasn't worth it. So America gave up several of its colonies (e.g. Philippines), just as Europeans in the end gave up many of theirs willingly (although others they put up a fight to keep.)

Where is youe evidence that we gave up Europe and Japan because "imperialism wasn't worth it?" Rather than we thought it was the right thing to do?

Do you have any idea about the geography of Australia? Do you have any idea about the vast logistical challenges the Japanese would have faced in trying to invade Australia? The Japanese thought about invading Australia, and realised it was impractical. Even in the unlikely event Japan had tried, and the even more unlikely event that they didn't fail completely, the most they could realistically have achieved (and all even the most optimistic of Japanese generals thought they might achieve) would be conquest of the northern half of the continent, not the southern population centres where I and my ancestors (and those of most other Australians) lived. Even if America had kept out of the war completely. And of those in the Japanese military who wanted to invade Australia, their main argument was that the US would use Australia as a base to counterattack the Japanese in the north. Without US involvement in the war, the motivation for a Japanese invasion would be eliminated.

Utter nonsense. Japan would have and could have taken all the major population centers. They were looking to true Empire in the Pacific and it was only a matter of time before they would have invaded your "western" nation. Besides your boys were already fighting against Japan's ally Germany in north Africa. So they would have good reason to attack your country and would have. It is true that early in the 1940s the Japanese were over extended but once they consolidated power and extended supply lines they would have been on your door step.They certainly wanted to.

[seer]

So, if the US kept out of WW2... much of Southeast Asia might speak Japanese, and much of Europe might speak German... but very unlikely we would speak Japanese here in Australia, other than as a foreign language for trade and diplomacy. (And quite a few Australians speak Japanese anyway - it is one of the more popular foreign languages here to study, although not as popular as it once was - Chinese is overtaking Japanese, as the Chinese economy rises and Japan's future looks not so bright.)

And if/when China comes knocking on your front door don't call us, OK... Heck you'll will probably roll over anyway - you guys must be a real embarrassment to your grandparents.

[Leonhard]

I remember strolling through the Tivoli Gardens on a cool autumn night - warm memories...

Second oldest amusement park in the world still in operation. And Dyrehavsbakken (translated as 'The Deer Hill Park', lit translated as 'The Animal Hill Park' also in Denmark is the oldest operating amusement park in the world. *national pride*

[seer]

Second oldest amusement park in the world still in operation. And Dyrehavsbakken (translated as 'The Deer Hill Park', lit translated as 'The Animal Hill Park' also in Denmark is the oldest operating amusement park in the world. *national pride*

Back in 75 after I got out of the service I spend two months backpacking through Europe and the British Isles, alone. And the two countries that impressed me most were Denmark and Scotland. And if memory serves there was also a great large Castle that I visited in Denmark - it was quite impressive, as was the country side.

[ZackMartin]

Nonsense, at one point they had more nukes, more soliders, tanks etc... There was no way western Europe could have stopped Russia with out American help.

At this point they don't, and the Russians have completely lost interest in invading Western Europe. Some of their immediate neighbours (like Georgia) sure, but the odds of a Russian invasion of Germany today are so close to zero they can be ignored completely. Regardless of how justified Cold War military spending was, the excessive level of US military spending is not justified today

Look at health care, welfare, and education - these are the largest drivers of debt.

OK. But just remember, Debt = Spending - Taxes. There are two ways to solve debt, lower spending is one, increase taxes is another. Maybe if the US has a bigger debt problem than other countries, it is due to their unusually low taxation levels?

Where is youe evidence that we gave up Europe and Japan because "imperialism wasn't worth it?" Rather than we thought it was the right thing to do?

Did the US think Philippines independence was the right thing to do in 1946? If they thought it was the right thing to do in 1946, why not in 1898? Maybe, the US' evaluation of how to best further its own self-interest had changed

Was the Mexican-American War a case of imperialism? Is the US going to give California, Nevada, Utah, most of Arizona, half of New Mexico, part of Colorado, parts of Wyoming, parts of Kansas, parts of Oklahoma, back to Mexico? I doubt it. Nothing to do with "the right thing to do", it's about self-interest.

Utter nonsense. Japan would have and could have taken all the major population centers.

Could they? Do you have any idea about Australia's geography? Have you ever been to northern Australia? See Wikipedia's article on this very topic. I like the quote "No historian of standing believes the Japanese had a plan to invade Australia, there is not a skerrick of evidence."

They were looking to true Empire in the Pacific and it was only a matter of time before they would have invaded your "western" nation. Besides your boys were already fighting against Japan's ally Germany in north Africa. So they would have good reason to attack your country and would have. It is true that early in the 1940s the Japanese were over extended but once they consolidated power and extended supply lines they would have been on your door step.They certainly wanted to.

Unproven and unprovable speculation on your part. Historians who have studied the internal military planning of the Japan have found that (1) there was never even the vaguest Japanese plan to invade southern Australia; (2) a minority in the Japanese government and military advocated an invasion of northern Australia, but their proposal was rejected as too much risk and effort for too little gain. There is zero historical evidence of any plan or proposal by the Japanese military or government to invade southern Australia, and the proposals to invade northern Australia were rejected because the Japanese themselves knew how stupid they were.

[ZackMartin]

And if/when China comes knocking on your front door don't call us, OK... Heck you'll will probably roll over anyway - you guys must be a real embarrassment to your grandparents.

Zero evidence that scenario will ever happen. And baseless speculation about what Australians would or won't do in the event that extremely unlikely scenario actually occurred.

[pancreasman]

I think he's lost his temper and stomped off after delivering personal insults. To be clear, The US has much of which it can rightly be proud, but like any country it has its dark patches too. A real friend knows your dark bits but still likes you anyway.

Political theories are often poorly understood. I happily admit that my education is not great in that area. I think it's very tempting (just as it is in religion) to judge anything other than your own personal favourite by the worst excesses of its most extreme form.

[firstfloor]

So remove God from the picture and inherent human worth and what is left but a cost analysis? Subjectively deciding the quality of life, the monetary loss/benefit. Of course if we really are just a higher order of animal - why not abort the new born?


Abortion and after-birth abortion

http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/201...11-100411.full

The invention of God is evidence that humans are moral creatures. There is no risk of our species becoming immoral – this is a Christian myth. Immoral behavior is unnatural and requires training. Abortion is a very difficult ethical problem. It is a decision we all hope never to be faced with.

[Chrawnus]

The invention of God is evidence that humans are moral creatures. There is no risk of our species becoming immoral – this is a Christian myth. Immoral behavior is unnatural and requires training. Abortion is a very difficult ethical problem. It is a decision we all hope never to be faced with.

Is that why parents have to teach their children to behave?

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. People have to be taught not to do bad stuff, not the other way around. Immoral behaviour comes quite easily to kids.