Occupy leaders arrested for plot to blow up bridge

[Nathan Poe]

"We" didn't forget ANYTHING! I was just being a Poe.

Word of constructive criticism -- your Poe-ing needs work.

In order to be a proper Poe, your response should've been something like, "then we round up all those OWS traitors and ship them off to GITMO." That's the kind of response that blurs the line between genuine uberconservativism and parody.

[Sparko]

GITMO? Heck no. Let's ship them to North Korea.

[Cow Poke]

Word of constructive criticism -- your Poe-ing needs work

Well, of course! I fashioned it after you!

[One Bad Pig]

Madison's concern was of majority's in congress, not of majority's of U.S. citizens. Given our 2 Senators per state representation, regardless of the population of those states, It is possible to have a majority in the Senate, and yet that majority may only represent a small minority of U.S. citizens. So, what Madison was actually concerned about was the tyranny of the minority over the majority, not vice versa.

derp

[Sparko]

derp

my thoughts exactly. How clueless can JimL be?

[rogue06]

How soon we forget the OP. That plot was foiled -- let's hope the next one is too. And the one after that, and...

You see, CP, it's all well and cute to make fun of them until they step over the line. Frankly, I'm surprised it took them this long.

When these groups radicalize, it stops being funny.

Not so sure the Cleveland bridge was the first time. From November for instance

3 men claiming to be Occupy Portland protesters arrested in Marion County for possession of explosives

Marion County authorities arrested three men, who claimed to be Occupy Portland protesters, during a traffic stop after officers found fireworks and marijuana inside.


Source

© source where applicable

Let's see what sort of fireworks...

3 men claiming to be Occupy Portland protesters arrested in Marion County for possession of explosives

Inside the car, the deputy also found a number of firecrackers and two commercially made mortars inside glass canning jars, designed to be fired into the area during professional pyrotechnic displays. One was found in the floorboard of the vehicle, and the other was allegedly in Luff's jacket.

The deputy also found two gas masks, protective eye goggles and a safety helmet. All three men told the deputy that they had spent the night at the Occupy Portland demonstration, and they brought the mortars and safety equipment to the demonstration in preparation of the expected confrontation between police and protesters Sunday morning.

The three had been at the demonstration during the confrontation Sunday morning and had left about an hour before the vehicle was stopped. During that confrontation, a police officer was injured by a firework, but the three men denied being involved in the incident.

When asked about the explosives, the three men told authorities that they knew the canning jar would explode, causing glass shrapnel to fly and possibly cause injury.


Source

© source where applicable

Not as deadly as blowing up a bridge or even putting a firebomb in the stairwell of a building full of people but a definite indication of things to come.





And still waiting for those hate-filled, radicalized Tea Party members to do something similar.

[Cow Poke]

derp

I googled this just for grins, and apparently there are some OWS Talking Points that claim that Madison would be "right there with" the OWS movement.

But remember, Jim ALSO claimed there was "no mechanism" for these wealthy liberals to voluntarily give money to the government, if that's what they want to do.

Jim, obviously, is just going by "party dogma".

[Sparko]

Madison's concern was of majority's in congress, not of majority's of U.S. citizens. Given our 2 Senators per state representation, regardless of the population of those states, It is possible to have a majority in the Senate, and yet that majority may only represent a small minority of U.S. citizens. So, what Madison was actually concerned about was the tyranny of the minority over the majority, not vice versa.

Not even close Jim.

It remains then to be enquired whether a majority having any common interest, or feeling any common passion, will find sufficient motives to restrain them from oppressing the minority. An individual is never allowed to be a judge or even a witness in his own cause. If two individuals are under the biass of interest or enmity agst. a third, the rights of the latter could never be safely referred to the majority of the three. Will two thousand individuals be less apt to oppress one thousand, or two hundred thousand, one hundred thousand?

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...v1ch17s22.html

[rogue06]

Not even close Jim.

It remains then to be enquired whether a majority having any common interest, or feeling any common passion, will find sufficient motives to restrain them from oppressing the minority. An individual is never allowed to be a judge or even a witness in his own cause. If two individuals are under the biass of interest or enmity agst. a third, the rights of the latter could never be safely referred to the majority of the three. Will two thousand individuals be less apt to oppress one thousand, or two hundred thousand, one hundred thousand?

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...v1ch17s22.html

Might as well add this:

James Madison, in “Federalist Paper No. 10"

“Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”

© source where applicable

You'll also find in Federalist Paper No. 10 that Madison stated that in a pure democracy “there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.”

[lilpixieofterror]

No, the fact that we don't have a leader makes OWS leaderless.

You really do not understand a thing about sociology and just simply brain dumped your military training whenever it suits you, eh? Did the civil rights movement start out with defined leaders? Nope, but people rose to those positions such as MLK or Malcolm X and while the civil rights movement didn't start out with a 'leader' as its head, it ended up with its spokesmen that many people within the civil rights movement rallied behind. Are you so deluded that you do not see this going on in OWS? You do not see anybody taking the part of a leader or see anybody as attending more meetings and seeing sides forming within the movement, with people siding with one personality or a handful of personalities? Wow... you really have not a clue about reality and just swallow your own propaganda and pretend that OWS is magical and above human social tendencies, eh?

You might have noticed that the individual groups don't hash much out between themselves, each city does its own thing within the confines of our overall shared purpose of societal enhancement

So you're saying there is nobody taking up the role of a leader in any of these groups? Are you saying that nobody is rallying behind a person or group of people? Are you saying that some people's word and opinion is beginning to carry more weight than others? Really Jaecp, are you this dumb when it comes to psychology or sociology? In the sense there is no head, sure that is true. In the sense there are no leaders, that is totally 100% bogus and history should tell you that much. The civil rights movement produced MLK and Malcolm X, who became definite leaders of the movement. The abolition movement formed the republican party and put Lincoln in the white house. Our independence brought forth our founding fathers. And the women's suffrage movement created people like Susan B Anthony or Elizabeth Stanton. Really, do you not know a thing about history at all or did you sleep though those classes? These movements all started out as 'leaderless' and people, either though their skills, personality, or both became defined voices and leaders for the movement. In conclusion, you want me that OWS is magically different then every other group in history and try to ignore anything that gets in the way of your fantasy...

Basically,

OWS has a very flat organizational system.

Still ignoring that some people are rising up in the movement and doing things like speaking in behalf for the group to the press or organizing events for OWS. Ignoring reality is pretty typical for you, isn't it?

The US has a vertical one (many vertical ones, but still vertical ones)

The US has many elected officials, leaders of the country.

OWS has no elected officials

Too bad not having any elected officials doesn't magically make a group leaderless. Was MLK voted in? Nope. How about Susan B Anthony? Was she voted in? Nope. So how are these people seen as leaders of their respected movements if nobody voted for them? Could it possible because of their personalities, skills, or both that they became the voice of many people of their respective movements who embodied their philosophy? You are aware that just because there is no voting in of positions, it doesn't magically make a movement 'leaderless', right?

You forget that I've worked with these people, I've seen how it works firsthand. It's all about the idea's. The best idea's win, because everyone gets a vote. We don't vote for leadership and then let them handle stuff. It's very flat.

Yep, you ignore sociology and psychology and magically think that OWS is immune to human tendencies and every other movement and group in the history of humanity. Can you mark where MLK was voted a leader of the civil rights movement? So how did he become the voice of the movement if nobody voted for him? Perhaps it is because MLK had the personality and skills to rise up to become a major player within the civil rights movement? It is something backed over and over and over again in human history Jaecp. Why are you ignoring history? Also, are you saying that nobody is there to help organize events OWS takes part in? Are you saying every minor decision has to be voted on before it can be carried out? Are you saying that everybody in OWS votes for every little decision made, no matter how small? Again, you ignore reality to swallow your own propaganda, hook, line, and sinker. Nice. Why are you ignoring things you do not want to hear?

[rogue06]

If you want to know who the leaders of a "leaderless movement" are just look to the folks everyone turns to whenever a problem arises. Those are the leaders. It really is that simple.

[Nathan Poe]

GITMO? Heck no. Let's ship them to North Korea.

Just to have them shipped back 2 weeks later? ;)

[Nathan Poe]

Well, of course! I fashioned it after you!

And that's why it needs work! Most Poes are self-taught by necessity -- why not take some advice from (if I may say so myself) an authority on the subject?

[Nathan Poe]

Not so sure the Cleveland bridge was the first time. From November for instance

<snip>

Not as deadly as blowing up a bridge or even putting a firebomb in the stairwell of a building full of people but a definite indication of things to come.

So it's begun already. Interesting...

And still waiting for those hate-filled, radicalized Tea Party members to do something similar.

Won't happen. Tea partiers won't radicalize; they're not trying to fight the system, they want to be the system.

[lilpixieofterror]

If you want to know who the leaders of a "leaderless movement" are just look to the folks everyone turns to whenever a problem arises. Those are the leaders. It really is that simple.

Psst, thing is Rogue, Jaecp should know that if he hadn't dumped his military training to buy into his groups propaganda because I sure remember being taught that leaders are informal (IE the leader of a high school cliché) and formal (IE our president). Anyway, every group has somebody that people get behind and I find it very hard to believe that OWS is magically different then every other protest movement in history. I would agree they are a good deal less structured than other groups are, but leaderless? Lol, that's a riot.