Just a simple man called Jesus ....

[headheart]

....but didn't he love didn't he shine?


DIDN'T HE SHINE - DALLAS HOLM

The Transfiguratoin.gif

There's this account in the New Testament (Christian sacred texts) where Jesus is radiantly transfigured. Now we know from reading the NT that most of the times when Jesus discouraged those whose lives he'd touched not to broadcast their good fortune they'd go off and tell everyone. (Mark 1) So that the very next morning Jesus would wake up to a crowd of people wanting help with whatever it was that ailed them. Yet this thread is not about that.

What this thread is about is how the Christian sacred texts and esp. the gospel accounts seem to be filled with references to "light." It seems to be a central topic. Could it be that the event so startled those disciples on the mount that day and many who knew Jesus that it was among other words one which best described him.

You know how sometimes when you meet a someone and they seem to have a certain kind of incandescence? I'm not talking about auras 'n stuff. Oh, well anyhow onto the texts.

So, how many times is the word 'light' used in the Christian sacred texts?
Answer: 216 times. (ESV)

Which books used the word 'light' the most often?

OT:
Answer: Job 29 times (ESV) , Psalms 24 (ESV) and Isaiah 22 (ESV)
NT:
Answer: John 16 times (ESV) , Luke 14 (ESV) and Matthew 10 (ESV)

Okay, that's interesting. Right?

Now of the three men who saw Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration how many times did they use the word light in their writings?

Answer:
Peter (1),
John (26),
and James (0).

Okay, so 26 passages are too many to post up and it's interesting to note that most of them are from the gospel according to John (16) and the remainder are from 1 John (5) and Revelation.(5)

However, I'm interested to know what Peter wrote seeing as there is only one passage which uses the word light:

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light."

The Light of the world.jpg

Interesting how this reminds me of the description of Paul's experience on the road to Damascus. In fact based on what is written in Luke I'd say that the after affects of Paul's experience were considerably more severe. Wasn't he partially blinded and only recovered his composure a few days later after having been helped by Cornelius. Oh, my memory is like a sieve. Can someone help me here?

This has me thinking a lot about this as it seems that this might be a bigger thing that I first imagined. Well, time to go and sleep and ponder this in my prayers.

I wrote this before I wrote what preceded, in case this doesn't follow after my minor moment of transcendence.

Now there were two other men there that day but they were from the future. The future? Yeah, that'd be right!

Now obviously anyone who's ever done a proper Bible study (from beginning to end) they'll tell you that doing a word search is nothing like doing a total read with a particular theme in mind. Not only can one track the development of a certain topic but one can also find many passage which discuss events where light is involved without using that English world. Now seeing as I've not done that yet, I shall attend to that and return to read this thread when I'm done.

God bless.
Eric.

[Whag]

....but didn't he love didn't he shine?


DIDN'T HE SHINE - DALLAS HOLM

The Transfiguratoin.gif

There's this account in the New Testament (Christian sacred texts) where Jesus is radiantly transfigured. Now we know from reading the NT that most of the times when Jesus discouraged those whose lives he'd touched not to broadcast their good fortune they'd go off and tell everyone. (Mark 1) So that the very next morning Jesus would wake up to a crowd of people wanting help with whatever it was that ailed them. Yet this thread is not about that.

What this thread is about is how the Christian sacred texts and esp. the gospel accounts seem to be filled with references to "light." It seems to be a central topic. Could it be that the event so startled those disciples on the mount that day and many who knew Jesus that it was among other words one which best described him.

You know how sometimes when you meet a someone and they seem to have a certain kind of incandescence? I'm not talking about auras 'n stuff. Oh, well anyhow onto the texts.

So, how many times is the word 'light' used in the Christian sacred texts?
Answer: 216 times. (ESV)

Which books used the word 'light' the most often?

OT:
Answer: Job 29 times (ESV) , Psalms 24 (ESV) and Isaiah 22 (ESV)
NT:
Answer: John 16 times (ESV) , Luke 14 (ESV) and Matthew 10 (ESV)

Okay, that's interesting. Right?

Now of the three men who saw Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration how many times did they use the word light in their writings?

Answer:
Peter (1),
John (26),
and James (0).

Okay, so 26 passages are too many to post up and it's interesting to note that most of them are from the gospel according to John (16) and the remainder are from 1 John (5) and Revelation.(5)

However, I'm interested to know what Peter wrote seeing as there is only one passage which uses the word light:

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light."

The Light of the world.jpg

Interesting how this reminds me of the description of Paul's experience on the road to Damascus. In fact based on what is written in Luke I'd say that the after affects of Paul's experience were considerably more severe. Wasn't he partially blinded and only recovered his composure a few days later after having been helped by Cornelius. Oh, my memory is like a sieve. Can someone help me here?

This has me thinking a lot about this as it seems that this might be a bigger thing that I first imagined. Well, time to go and sleep and ponder this in my prayers.

I wrote this before I wrote what preceded, in case this doesn't follow after my minor moment of transcendence.

Now there were two other men there that day but they were from the future. The future? Yeah, that'd be right!

Now obviously anyone who's ever done a proper Bible study (from beginning to end) they'll tell you that doing a word search is nothing like doing a total read with a particular theme in mind. Not only can one track the development of a certain topic but one can also find many passage which discuss events where light is involved without using that English world. Now seeing as I've not done that yet, I shall attend to that and return to read this thread when I'm done.

God bless.
Eric.

Honestly, I don't find this particularly "illuminating."

Seriously, though, visible light is a fairly common metaphor in religion, and it's no wonder. Human beings would be eaten by animals or attacked by other tribes at night before religion took root. Fire literally empowered us and gave us the confidence to develop and evolve as a species. The day contrasted powerfully with the spooky, evil night.

[headheart]

Honestly, I don't find this particularly "illuminating."

Seriously, though, visible light is a fairly common metaphor in religion, and it's no wonder. Human beings would be eaten by animals or attacked by other tribes at night before religion took root. Fire literally empowered us and gave us the confidence to develop and evolve as a species. The day contrasted powerfully with the spooky, evil night.

LOL!

I could say the say the same for your anthropological droppings. What makes you so sure that religion which you say 'took root' wasn't just the blurring* of that that first light that 'Eden saw play' (Cat Stevens)

Morning has broken, like the first morning
Blackbird has spoken, like the first bird
Praise for the singing, praise for the morning
Praise for the springing fresh from the word

Sweet the rain's new fall, sunlit from heaven
Like the first dewfall, on the first grass
Praise for the sweetness of the wet garden
Sprung in completeness where his feet pass

Mine is the sunlight, mine is the morning
Born of the one light, Eden saw play
Praise with elation, praise every morning
God's recreation of the new day

A light which those savage children bathed in like children in innocence before they could write or speak or articulate?

I'd say give Dr. David Lahti's lecture 'The Evolution of Religion' a listen before raising your masts for that barren land.

*blurring = Why does religion keep telling us we're bad? by Dr. David Lahti (The Gaurdian)

'Many of the evolutionarily savvy among us have chosen one of two roads with regard to describing our moral nature. One is the comforting notion that we are generally prosocial nice folks except for those odd meanies who must be explained as having some strange allele or bad childhood environment. The other common option is a descent into moral scepticism or nihilism where nothing matters anyway because it's all just a product of our evolution. These alternatives together look remarkably like a sour grapes attitude: either we are fundamentally good, or else forget it there's no such thing as good and bad. The main reason for Isaiah's admonition to remember how we fall short, as for most Jewish and Christian moral admonitions come to think of it, is to counteract our tendency to look at ourselves with rose-coloured glasses and become complacent. It looks like we could use a dose of my father's old time religion after all.'

[headheart]

Add 2: Paul's use of the word 'light' and heavenly vision accounts

As I was closing down for the morning ( LOL! ) which should have been the night (What's it with sleeping patterns and getting old?) Oh, well, as I was reading over the OP before shutting off my computer and going to bed, I noticed that of the NT writers , apart from the fact that Paul was the most prolific and earliest , he uses the terminology of 'light' as a metaphor too. Yet one cannot help wondering if the power of the first encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus didn't influence his use of it in a descriptive sense with regard to the person of Jesus. Okay, that'd imply that Jesus was not just a man but a man with a sometimes glow. I guess in the sense that a young woman is said to be glowing (I mean a pregnant woman - age not being the point) when she is pregnant. Nope, I think that it's the other sort of incandescence. The sort that one might remark when being in the company of Nelson Mandela, the Dalai Lama, or Adolph Hitler (Hitler you say, that'd be a very different light?) = well not necessarily. Okay, moving on. I'm thinking of those sages, or mountain meditation types in Tibet, and well it's clearly documented that Jesus was a many of considerable fortitude in prayer. One might say that the description of prayer in the book of James. i.e. 'the fervent prayer of a righteous man availath much' and then think of the account where Jesus heals the blind man and immediate criticism of where he is getting his healing ability from. Think of the account of the woman with the issue of blood. Once again power is said to go out of him. When he's tired, exhausted from a day of being the 'Light of the world' he goes off alone, he takes a long walk and spends the night in prayer. Even the commencement of his ministry is marked by a 40 day fasting and prayer and though there is very little of the sort of descriptive stuff one gets in a novel with most of the accounts, i.e' what Jesus voice sounded like, whether his hair was stringy etc. We can pretty much figure out based on other documented writings that when people do engage in this sort of rigorous spiritual discipline there is often this uncanny light (and not a metaphorical light)

Now to a few passage from Paul's light collection (Romans = 2 , 1 Corinthians = 1 , 2 Corinthians = 5 , Ephesians = 5 , Colossians = 1 , 1 Thessalonians = 1 , 1 Timothy = 1 , 2 Timothy = 1 Grand Total: 17

Perhaps we shall look at a few of those in the final post.

Plus the 5 accounts of Paul and the accounts of Jesus on the mount of transfiguration (which I shall cover in the final post):

'The Conversion of Paul the Apostle (anglicized from the Latin Vulgate section title: Conversio Sauli), as depicted in the Christian Bible, refers to an event reported to have taken place in the life of Paul of Tarsus which led him to cease persecuting early Christians and to become a follower of Jesus; it is normally dated by researchers to AD 33–36'

(Gleaned from Bromiley, Geoffrey William (1979). International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: A-D (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (W.B.Eerdmans)). Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. pp. 689. ISBN 0-8028-3781-6. - Barnett, Paul (2002). Jesus, the Rise of Early Christianity: A History of New Testament Times. InterVarsity Press. pp. 21. ISBN 0-8308-2699-8. - L. Niswonger, Richard (1993). New Testament History. Zondervan Publishing Company. pp. 200. ISBN 0-310-31201-9. ) for W.O.E. "Conversion of Paul the Apostle"

1. 1 Corinthians 9:1-9:1 NRSV

"Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?"

2. 1 Corinthians 15:3-15:8 NRSV

" .... Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to someone untimely born, he appeared also to me. "

3. Acts 9:3–9 ASV

".... and suddenly there shone round about him a light out of heaven: .... And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw nothing; and they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. And he was three days without sight, and did neither eat nor drink."

4. Acts 9:13–19 ASV

"....And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. ...."

5. Acts 22:6-21 (this is a little too large to post here, so you're going to have to click through on the link provided) = ASV

'....And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me I came into Damascus. ....'

6. Acts 26:12-19 ASV

'.... O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me ....'

Peace,
Eric

[headheart]

Add 3: Final post - A few from Paul's Electric Light Orchestra and radiant transfiguration of a man called Jesus

A few from Paul's Electric Light Orchestra:

I. 'who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see' (obviously referring to "G-d", in a metaphor "the sun behind the sun behind the sun" if you will? a. Unapproachable light -> b. The Transfiguration -> c. Natural light from the sun )

"I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."

(1 Timothy 6:13-16 ESV)

II.
This is rather a long passage, but even though there is a use of light as a metaphor (and how often this sort of condescension via metaphors and anthropomorphism impales the real sense of what Paul has referred to as being brighter than the sun)

"May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him."

(Colossians 1:11-16 ESV)

I know I might be pressing this a bit too much and I'm sure ye biblical scholars and theologians believing or not'll rightly divide and offer critical exegesis where I have failed. "saints in light" + "the kingdom of the beloved Son" < light implied (in fact I think some translations couple to kingdom, and then 'image of invisible' certainly take me back to the first passage here, with 'light unapproachable'

III.
This passage is also quite long but it is a volley of the use of the word light:

"Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says,

“Awake, O sleeper,
and arise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.” < there are a few Old Testament references here for the serious student to look up, but I'm not going to go there, because this is already quite an light-filled envelope. "

(Ephesians 5:7-14 ESV)

2 Corinthians certainly has a few passage worth looking at and of course the well worn one:

"And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."

1 Corinthians (?) and finally Paul's letter to the Romans. It looks like I'm going to have to post another post dealing with the transfiguration of Jesus. Okay. It'll be good to spend time reflecting on the Transfiguration. Mmmm.

I was thinking that Romans 1 might have some splendid declaration but all I'm left with is one possible ( "The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light."
(Romans 13:12 ESV) ) from the word search division and then on to reading about the Transfiguration and taking a slow read through the whole Bible on the subject. Come on, if you've got nothing better to do, why not join me and see who gets done first.

Peace, Eric




Now for a music break: Sting - Shape Of My Heart

[headheart]

Add 4: "Finally" (from the leaf of a one time prolific writer who just happened to see Jesus in a heavenly vision - Praise the Lord!!!) THE TRANSFIGURATION OF JESUS

The Word was made flesh and dwelled among us and we beheld his glory that of the only caused Son.jpg
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14 NIV (Listen)

THE TRANSFIGURATION OF JESUS

"The Transfiguration of Jesus is an event reported in the New Testament in which Jesus is transfigured (or metamorphosed) and becomes radiant upon a mountain. The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew 17:1-9, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36) describe it, and 2 Peter 1:16-18 refers to it." (From: Wikipedia Online Encyclopedia - Transfiguration of Jesus)

A.
The Transfiguration (Matthew 17 NIV - Listen)

17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” 8 When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.

9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”

B.
The Transfiguration ( Mark 9:2-8 (ESV) Listen )

2 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, 3 and his clothes became radiant, intensely white, as no one (a) on earth could bleach them. 4 And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus. 5 And Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, (b) it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 6 For he did not know what to say, for they were terrified. 7 And a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is my beloved Son; (c) listen to him.” 8 And suddenly, looking around, they no longer saw anyone with them but Jesus only.

Footnotes:
a) Mark 9:3 Greek launderer (gnapheus)
b) Mark 9:5 Rabbi means my teacher, or my master
c) Mark 9:7 Or my Son, my (or the) Beloved

C.
The Transfiguration ( Luke 9:28-36 (NIV) Listen )

28 About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. 31 They spoke about his departure,[a] which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. 32 Peter and his companions were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. 33 As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, “Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” (He did not know what he was saying.)

34 While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.” 36 When the voice had spoken, they found that Jesus was alone. The disciples kept this to themselves and did not tell anyone at that time what they had seen.

Footnotes:
Luke 9:31 Greek exodos

D. (Peter's telling)

2 Peter 1:16-18
New International Version (NIV) Listen

16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”[a] 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

Footnotes:
2 Peter 1:17 Matt. 17:5; Mark 9:7; Luke 9:35

I can't keep myself from praising the Lord at the point. So, I'll get to that and studying more of that which in the words of Peter was no 'cleverly devised stories' but what they had witnessed in person. Hectic!

Peace,
Eric

Add (a)

Messiaen - La Transfiguration de Notre Seigneur Jesus-Christ

Add (b)
I forgot to link out to John's 26 references to light, but that's for another time.

God bless and take care as you worship "Majestic Glory!!!!"

[Whag]

I could say the say the same for your anthropological droppings.

One must fathom humankind's life-and-death relationship with light and darkness before you can even begin to understand the human condition. That's the heart of our fear or darkness and love of light. This is why I think your meditation on light is too premature, at least for skeptics.

[headheart]

One must fathom humankind's life-and-death relationship with light and darkness before you can even begin to understand the human condition. That's the heart of our fear or darkness and love of light. This is why I think your meditation on light is too premature, at least for skeptics.

That's deep Whag!

Ah___ Whag but there are very few truly earnest skeptics on this forum.

[headheart]

Perhaps this thread could be reposted elsewhere, but the problem is I don't think anyone will have it. It's like a giant chain letter. LOL

[Whag]

That's deep Whag!

Ah___ Whag but there are very few truly earnest skeptics on this forum.

You wouldn't know earnest skepticism if it bit you on your bum.

[headheart]

You wouldn't know earnest skepticism if it bit you on your bum.

That's not true, but I could say the same of you and your side kick.

Peace,
Eric