Newbie Introduction: Mitt Romney, Mormons, FLDS, Warren Jeff

[fincenMIB]

The FLDS have been more of an obsession to me, that over an interest. I lived in Hurricane, Utah 26 miles from Hildale/Coloado City. We visited their zoo a few times in the first 8 years of 10 we lived there. In my last 2 years, 2000 & 2001I read a news article that pissed me off and months later, I was running an underground for fleeing teens. Up until that time, I was working in Gang Prevention and sitting on several County & State Task Forces. The state and LDS church were not responsive to my plea for help and that made our relationship difficult. I worked with most of the activist seen in the news and played point person, between 4 non profits and the news media. So in Utah I know Larry Warren, Dan Rascon, Brent Hunsaker, John Hollenhorst, Ben Winslow, etc. News anchors. I worked most with Mike Watkis with News 3 TV in Phoenix, usually more involved with covering our rescues.

I worked with Jon Krakauer when he wrote "Under the Banner of Heaven" and certainly spar'd with LDS Church spokeman like Dale Bills & Mike Otterson. Olsen & Evans in Government affairs. The most helpful Utah senators were Ron Allen who authored SB146 in 2000 and former Democratic Whip Senator Scott Howell. The Attorney General an on off repore thing, Mark Shurtleff tried, but politics held his office back. AG Investigator of closed societies was Mike King, followed by Ron Barton, followed by Jim Hill, last I was active. In Arizona I started with Janet Napolitano who was Arizona AG 12 years ago, before Terry Goodard was elected.

I am friends today with three of the 4 court appointed trustee's of the UEP or United Effort Plan, in Carolyn Jessop, Katie Cox & Deloy Bateman and have stayed in the homes of 2 of those when in Colorado City.

Warren Jeffs another story, he put me on par with Flora Jessop an ex child bride, with prayer request from the saints to pray for our deaths by God.

I collected Jeffs Audio's from fleeing apostates who needed gas money to leave. My largest purchase $1,000 for about 400 of Warren's audio cassettes. I started with a life time loan of the FLDS text books, about 14 of them. PRIESTHOOD SUCCESSION, IN LIGHT & TRUTH, 3 ALTA ACADEMY STUDENT STAR BOOKS, PREISTHOOD ARTICLES, Rulon Jeffs Sermons Volumes 1-8, PURITY IN THE NEW AND EVERLASTING COVENANT OF MARRIAGE, plus some of Leroy Johnsons sermons. Could be boring stuff to most, but it gave me info sought by the news media.

A reason for Warren to hate me, the 3 audios used in his 2007 Utah trial were mine, Elissa Wall the victim. The audios used by NPR radio mine again. The Southern Poverty Law Center, again mine. It took 5 plus years of political pressure in the news to get Warren Jeffs elevated to the FBI's TEN MOST WANTED list. FBI flamed me in 2005 & yet had Jeffs on their MOST WANTED list a year later.

I have listened to 1000 hours of Jeffs monitone voice so as to offer audio of a more precise nature. One documentary wanted polygamy being taught, another the history of the negro race and another wanted hymns being sung. A necessary evil to know which ones the media was looking for. Prior and on my arrival to Utah in 1992, as a non Mormon, I found Sandra & Jerald Tanner of Lighthouse Ministries and ordered every reprint they had. Book of Mormon 1830, Pearl of Great Price 1851, etc. When addressing the FLDS 7 years later the shared theology of the two made sense.

In 2007 I connected with the 3 groups that are member decendents of the MOUNTAIN MEADOW MASSACRE and have attended their events, including meeting with the shivwits band of paiutes, who for 150 years bore the blame for the early saints militia led by John D. Lee. Lot of anger there and rightfully so. Its a very complex issue today. At the last gathering I met and sat with LDS church historian Richard Turley.

Unfortunately, now that I prefer Romney over Obama, I was one of those interviewed over Romney's family history in Mexico. The ill fated jab by Montana Governor last week. That article about the Romney family & Mexico here; http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0604/S00117.htm

So now I am a Mitt defender, GO FIGURE! Thats how I stumbled in to this site.

[OtherCheek]

The FLDS have been more of an obsession to me, that over an interest. I lived in Hurricane, Utah 26 miles from Hildale/Coloado City. We visited their zoo a few times in the first 8 years of 10 we lived there. In my last 2 years, 2000 & 2001I read a news article that pissed me off and months later, I was running an underground for fleeing teens. Up until that time, I was working in Gang Prevention and sitting on several County & State Task Forces. The state and LDS church were not responsive to my plea for help and that made our relationship difficult. I worked with most of the activist seen in the news and played point person, between 4 non profits and the news media. So in Utah I know Larry Warren, Dan Rascon, Brent Hunsaker, John Hollenhorst, Ben Winslow, etc. News anchors. I worked most with Mike Watkis with News 3 TV in Phoenix, usually more involved with covering our rescues.

I worked with Jon Krakauer when he wrote "Under the Banner of Heaven" and certainly spar'd with LDS Church spokeman like Dale Bills & Mike Otterson. Olsen & Evans in Government affairs. The most helpful Utah senators were Ron Allen who authored SB146 in 2000 and former Democratic Whip Senator Scott Howell. The Attorney General an on off repore thing, Mark Shurtleff tried, but politics held his office back. AG Investigator of closed societies was Mike King, followed by Ron Barton, followed by Jim Hill, last I was active. In Arizona I started with Janet Napolitano who was Arizona AG 12 years ago, before Terry Goodard was elected.

I am friends today with three of the 4 court appointed trustee's of the UEP or United Effort Plan, in Carolyn Jessop, Katie Cox & Deloy Bateman and have stayed in the homes of 2 of those when in Colorado City.

Warren Jeffs another story, he put me on par with Flora Jessop an ex child bride, with prayer request from the saints to pray for our deaths by God.

I collected Jeffs Audio's from fleeing apostates who needed gas money to leave. My largest purchase $1,000 for about 400 of Warren's audio cassettes. I started with a life time loan of the FLDS text books, about 14 of them. PRIESTHOOD SUCCESSION, IN LIGHT & TRUTH, 3 ALTA ACADEMY STUDENT STAR BOOKS, PREISTHOOD ARTICLES, Rulon Jeffs Sermons Volumes 1-8, PURITY IN THE NEW AND EVERLASTING COVENANT OF MARRIAGE, plus some of Leroy Johnsons sermons. Could be boring stuff to most, but it gave me info sought by the news media.

A reason for Warren to hate me, the 3 audios used in his 2007 Utah trial were mine, Elissa Wall the victim. The audios used by NPR radio mine again. The Southern Poverty Law Center, again mine. It took 5 plus years of political pressure in the news to get Warren Jeffs elevated to the FBI's TEN MOST WANTED list. FBI flamed me in 2005 & yet had Jeffs on their MOST WANTED list a year later.

I have listened to 1000 hours of Jeffs monitone voice so as to offer audio of a more precise nature. One documentary wanted polygamy being taught, another the history of the negro race and another wanted hymns being sung. A necessary evil to know which ones the media was looking for. Prior and on my arrival to Utah in 1992, as a non Mormon, I found Sandra & Jerald Tanner of Lighthouse Ministries and ordered every reprint they had. Book of Mormon 1830, Pearl of Great Price 1851, etc. When addressing the FLDS 7 years later the shared theology of the two made sense.

In 2007 I connected with the 3 groups that are member decendents of the MOUNTAIN MEADOW MASSACRE and have attended their events, including meeting with the shivwits band of paiutes, who for 150 years bore the blame for the early saints militia led by John D. Lee. Lot of anger there and rightfully so. Its a very complex issue today. At the last gathering I met and sat with LDS church historian Richard Turley.

Unfortunately, now that I prefer Romney over Obama, I was one of those interviewed over Romney's family history in Mexico. The ill fated jab by Montana Governor last week. That article about the Romney family & Mexico here; http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0604/S00117.htm

So now I am a Mitt defender, GO FIGURE! Thats how I stumbled in to this site.

After working with all those Dems, whoda thunk it. Welcome to Tweb MIB. Does that stand for Men in Black? Just wondering.

Go Mitt.

[Raphael]

Welcome to TWeb.

[Cow Poke]

Interesting!

[nrajeff]

Yes, interesting. Krakauer has taken some flak for "inaccuracies" in his book. I don't know how much of the criticism is justly deserved.

[fincenMIB]

After working with all those Dems, whoda thunk it. Welcome to Tweb MIB. Does that stand for Men in Black? Just wondering.

Go Mitt.

Yes, 10 years living in Utah, to many conspiracy theorist. So F.I.N.C.E.N. is a DOJ agency that tracks money transacations, I met a few of them at training seminars, but they took heat for black vans & helicopters. Untrue, they are prolellar heads with coke bottle thick glasses, mostly computer nerds.. Then MIB for the movie sake, yes. Tongue and cheek joke, that started 15 years a go.

[fincenMIB]

Yes, interesting. Krakauer has taken some flak for "inaccuracies" in his book. I don't know how much of the criticism is justly deserved.

Jon K borrowed 10 of my hard back FLDS books for accuracy. Then I was in dialog with LDS church PR Michael Otterson, Otterson knew the book was coming 18 months prior. When Krakauer released it, Otterson said the church was blind sighted. I suggested to Otterson after that press response that I release recordings of our phone calls, he retreated. Krakauer was very detailed, with LDS text. If you have ever looked at the Tanner photo reprints of Church doctrine, there is little wiggle room to deny what he published. As activist we wanted church help, because in Utah church and state are nearly seamless.

[JB]

fincenMIB, it's great to have you here! Your story is a really fascinating one, and I look forward to learning much from you. I've been interested in getting a better understanding on the Fundamentalist wing of the Latter Day Saint movement for a while now.


ETA: I've been watching a few of your YouTube videos, particularly the old one with some FLDS genograms and the audio of Warren Jeffs in the background, and now I see what you mean about his monotone voice!

[nrajeff]

.... in Utah church and state are nearly seamless.

That is debatable, IMO. If the church was really running the state, I'd expect to see more blue laws than currently exist, and a stronger stance on other moral issues reflected in the laws of the state and its municipalities.
One place where Utah's religious preferences are probably manifested, though, is in Presidential elections. Republicans carry Utah by a larger majority there than they do in most states.

[One Bad Pig]

Jon K borrowed 10 of my hard back FLDS books for accuracy. Then I was in dialog with LDS church PR Michael Otterson, Otterson knew the book was coming 18 months prior. When Krakauer released it, Otterson said the church was blind sighted. I suggested to Otterson after that press response that I release recordings of our phone calls, he retreated. Krakauer was very detailed, with LDS text. If you have ever looked at the Tanner photo reprints of Church doctrine, there is little wiggle room to deny what he published. As activist we wanted church help, because in Utah church and state are nearly seamless.

I just finished reading the book. The copy I read has an appendix containing a preemptive response to the book released by the LDS 2 weeks before the book went on sale, as well as Krakauer's reply to it. The book may be an accurate reflection of the FLDS, but I'd be more interested in a book that dealt more with the majority of LDS. The book is also critical of religion in general and fundamentalists/evangelicals - he seems to equate the two words - and lists Jesus among those afflicted with Narcissistic Personality Disorder .

[franktalk]

The FLDS have been more of an obsession to me, that over an interest. I lived in Hurricane, Utah 26 miles from Hildale/Coloado City. We visited their zoo a few times in the first 8 years of 10 we lived there. In my last 2 years, 2000 & 2001I read a news article that pissed me off and months later, I was running an underground for fleeing teens. Up until that time, I was working in Gang Prevention and sitting on several County & State Task Forces. The state and LDS church were not responsive to my plea for help and that made our relationship difficult. I worked with most of the activist seen in the news and played point person, between 4 non profits and the news media. So in Utah I know Larry Warren, Dan Rascon, Brent Hunsaker, John Hollenhorst, Ben Winslow, etc. News anchors. I worked most with Mike Watkis with News 3 TV in Phoenix, usually more involved with covering our rescues.

I worked with Jon Krakauer when he wrote "Under the Banner of Heaven" and certainly spar'd with LDS Church spokeman like Dale Bills & Mike Otterson. Olsen & Evans in Government affairs. The most helpful Utah senators were Ron Allen who authored SB146 in 2000 and former Democratic Whip Senator Scott Howell. The Attorney General an on off repore thing, Mark Shurtleff tried, but politics held his office back. AG Investigator of closed societies was Mike King, followed by Ron Barton, followed by Jim Hill, last I was active. In Arizona I started with Janet Napolitano who was Arizona AG 12 years ago, before Terry Goodard was elected.

I am friends today with three of the 4 court appointed trustee's of the UEP or United Effort Plan, in Carolyn Jessop, Katie Cox & Deloy Bateman and have stayed in the homes of 2 of those when in Colorado City.

Warren Jeffs another story, he put me on par with Flora Jessop an ex child bride, with prayer request from the saints to pray for our deaths by God.

I collected Jeffs Audio's from fleeing apostates who needed gas money to leave. My largest purchase $1,000 for about 400 of Warren's audio cassettes. I started with a life time loan of the FLDS text books, about 14 of them. PRIESTHOOD SUCCESSION, IN LIGHT & TRUTH, 3 ALTA ACADEMY STUDENT STAR BOOKS, PREISTHOOD ARTICLES, Rulon Jeffs Sermons Volumes 1-8, PURITY IN THE NEW AND EVERLASTING COVENANT OF MARRIAGE, plus some of Leroy Johnsons sermons. Could be boring stuff to most, but it gave me info sought by the news media.

A reason for Warren to hate me, the 3 audios used in his 2007 Utah trial were mine, Elissa Wall the victim. The audios used by NPR radio mine again. The Southern Poverty Law Center, again mine. It took 5 plus years of political pressure in the news to get Warren Jeffs elevated to the FBI's TEN MOST WANTED list. FBI flamed me in 2005 & yet had Jeffs on their MOST WANTED list a year later.

I have listened to 1000 hours of Jeffs monitone voice so as to offer audio of a more precise nature. One documentary wanted polygamy being taught, another the history of the negro race and another wanted hymns being sung. A necessary evil to know which ones the media was looking for. Prior and on my arrival to Utah in 1992, as a non Mormon, I found Sandra & Jerald Tanner of Lighthouse Ministries and ordered every reprint they had. Book of Mormon 1830, Pearl of Great Price 1851, etc. When addressing the FLDS 7 years later the shared theology of the two made sense.

In 2007 I connected with the 3 groups that are member decendents of the MOUNTAIN MEADOW MASSACRE and have attended their events, including meeting with the shivwits band of paiutes, who for 150 years bore the blame for the early saints militia led by John D. Lee. Lot of anger there and rightfully so. Its a very complex issue today. At the last gathering I met and sat with LDS church historian Richard Turley.

Unfortunately, now that I prefer Romney over Obama, I was one of those interviewed over Romney's family history in Mexico. The ill fated jab by Montana Governor last week. That article about the Romney family & Mexico here; http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0604/S00117.htm

So now I am a Mitt defender, GO FIGURE! Thats how I stumbled in to this site.

All of that effort when you could have been saving little boys from priest.

[Sparko]

All of that effort when you could have been saving little boys from priest.

what the heck do you mean by that?

[Bill the Cat]

All of that effort when you could have been saving little boys from priest.

Totally uncalled for, Frank.