God of the Old Testament/New Testament

[roadwalker]

They built the temple to Jehovah. Jesus said it was his Father's house, and he even said that they called his Father their God. That clearly means Jesus was saying that Jehovah was the Father.

Your explanation requires that Jesus, as Jehovah, basically lied to the Jews, claiming to be the only God, and telling them to build at temple to HIM, when in fact there was another God, the Father, and the temple really was for him.

Not at all. As I've repeated many times, the Godhead consists of three personages who are united in purpose. It therefore matters not which of them does something (though we do know from the first chapter of John that Jesus did create the world) but in the end, the Father does, as presiding, get the credit for it. No different from saying that, "Henry Ford made millions of automobiles." Although it's possible that he may have personally made a small number when he was figuring out the design, the millions were physcially 'made' by thousands of other people, who did what Henry Ford told them to do. But he gets the credit for it, and deservedly so, because he organized and directed the company. Ditto with the Father. Jesus is certainly deserving of all glory; but He himself took none of it and instead gave it to the Father.

But being unfied in purpose, they are 'one God' in the sense that the L.A. Kings are 'one hockey team.' They play together as a team, not as individuals (that would be my Flames, who despite being one of the most talented teams in the NHL missed the playoffs again because they are NOT 'one hockey team' but six prima donnas on the ice at any one time-- but I digress.)

[roadwalker]

If you think that three gods on a team meshes with the Shema, then you were an awfully ignorant Jew.



Again, you are ignorant of Jewish Wisdom theology then. The Wisdom of God is personified as being separate from God, yet still part of God. God's Wisdom has separate emotions from God, yet it still is God in a monotheistic sense.



And why did they only know YHWH? Because He declared that He was the only God there was. And He declared that worshipping ANY other God but Him was blasphemy - to include some other secret god who preceeded Him.



But YHWH is never said to worship another god higher than Him, and in fact, He quite clearly says there IS no god above Him.

I'm not even sure I follow everything you said here. I stated that Jewish people belive in one God (having no concept of the Godhead.) Worshipping God's wisdom, or any other characteristic doesn't dispute thsi belief, by the way. It is true that God in the O.T. is not said to worship another God, but then again, the people at the time of the O.T. did not possess the same depth of understanding or ability that was available at the time of the New Testament, so they were simply never given an indication about the difference between the Father and the Son .

[Sparko]

Not at all. As I've repeated many times, the Godhead consists of three personages who are united in purpose. It therefore matters not which of them does something (though we do know from the first chapter of John that Jesus did create the world) but in the end, the Father does, as presiding, get the credit for it. No different from saying that, "Henry Ford made millions of automobiles." Although it's possible that he may have personally made a small number when he was figuring out the design, the millions were physcially 'made' by thousands of other people, who did what Henry Ford told them to do. But he gets the credit for it, and deservedly so, because he organized and directed the company. Ditto with the Father. Jesus is certainly deserving of all glory; but He himself took none of it and instead gave it to the Father.

But being unfied in purpose, they are 'one God' in the sense that the L.A. Kings are 'one hockey team.' They play together as a team, not as individuals (that would be my Flames, who despite being one of the most talented teams in the NHL missed the playoffs again because they are NOT 'one hockey team' but six prima donnas on the ice at any one time-- but I digress.)

Who was the God of the OT? Jehovah.

He said there were NO OTHER Gods before him, after him or besides him. He ALONE created the earth (not with the help of other Gods)

So that means if he was only one of 3 gods in the "godhead" - then he was lying. Because there were two other gods besides him, and at least 1 God before him and since you all will become gods one day, a lot of gods after him. And he lied about creating the earth alone, since he had the help of 2 other Gods.

So Jehovah, the way the LDS believe, is a bald faced liar. He lied about other Gods, about creating alone, about his temple.

Are you sure that the LDS believe Jehovah is Jesus and not Satan? Satan is supposed to be the liar after all.

[Bill the Cat]

I'm not even sure I follow everything you said here.

Sorry. What part is confusing? Perhaps I need to explain it better?

I stated that Jewish people belive in one God (having no concept of the Godhead.)

Yet they understood Wisdom as being an attribute of God, and that attributes of God could incarnate.

http://www.tektonics.org/jesusclaims/trinitydefense.html

Throughout the Old Testament and in the Jewish intertestamental Wisdom literature, the power of God's spoken word is emphasized (Ps. 33:6, 107:20; Is. 55:11; Jer. 23:29; 2 Esd. 6:38; Wisdom 9:1). "Judaism understood God's Word to have almost autonomous powers and substance once spoken; to be, in fact, 'a concrete reality, a veritable cause.'" (Richard N. Longenecker, The Christology of Early Jewish Christianity , 145.)

© source where applicable

Worshipping God's wisdom, or any other characteristic doesn't dispute this belief, by the way.

I know. That's why Wisdom Theology meshes so well with trinitarian belief.

It is true that God in the O.T. is not said to worship another God, but then again, the people at the time of the O.T. did not possess the same depth of understanding or ability that was available at the time of the New Testament,

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read...

so they were simply never given an indication about the difference between the Father and the Son .

They were given VERY SPECIFIC information that there was only ONE God, and that the name of YHWH was the highest name there was.

[One Bad Pig]

First, in LDS Theology we begin our prayers by addressing them to our Heavenly father, and end 'in the name of Jesus Christ.' So it is the house of his father as well as himself (and of the Holy Ghost, while we are on the topic.) All three are in the Godhead, and all three are recognized in the Temple (though I can't say any more than that, or I'd have to shoot you, or at least stun you real good with a tazer so you forgot whatever I would say.)

Second, the money changers in the Temple that Jesus drove out didn't recognize Him as God in the first place (if they had they would have just left without his having to drive them out.)

Neither point addresses the thrust of my post.