Is Christianity due for a government-imposed Reformation?

[OtherCheek]

This is a re-post from the same sex marriage thread, but I thought I would give it its own thread. If it contains too many links, then I would only ask the moderators to let me know, and I will remove them all, and furnish them upon request only--one at a time. I only cite the links so that there is no question regarding the authenticity of these cases of actual intolerance and bigotry against Christians who happen to oppose homosexual endorsement and/or promotion by the government. Much of the intolerance and discrimination against certain Christian beliefs happens to already be sanctioned by the government. Hence the title of this thread.

---------------

Let's take a look at some ramifications that have already taken place with regards to same-sex marriage, and see some examples of the bigotry that looms ahead for people who hold to a stricter form of Christianity than others.

The Observatory's Report on Intolerance and Discrimination against Christians in the Year 2011 was released on March 19th, 2012.

This report portrays the most important developments with regard to freedom of religion, the most striking cases of intolerance and discrimination throughout Europe – and what individuals and institutions say about it. The report includes several statistics as well as analysis of the meaning of freedom of religion in the European context.

Dr. Gudrun Kugler, director of the Observatory, explains: „Studies suggest that 85% of all hate crimes with an anti-religion background in Europe are directed against Christians. It is high time for the public debate to respond to this reality! We also notice professionial restrictions for Christians: a restrictive application of freedom of conscience leads to professions such as magistrates, doctors, nurses and midwives as well as pharmacists slowly closing for Christians. Teachers and parents get into trouble when they disagree with state-defined sexual ethics. Our research shows that only with a more accommodating approach to religion and specifically to Christianity, Europe will live up to its foundational value of freedom.“
http://www.intoleranceagainstchristi...port-2011.html

"Judge Rules Christian facility cannot ban same-sex civil union ceremony on its own premises"
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/jud...on-ceremony-on

Yeshiva University, an Orthodox Jewish institution in New York, has been sued over its refusal to offer student housing to a lesbian couple.
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jul/04/local/me-632

Same-sex marriage will be a real boon for lawyers. That's pretty obvious.

The California Supreme Court ruled against a clinic and Catholic doctors who declined on grounds of religious convictions to give assisted reproduction services to a lesbian even though they referred her to another physician. The court rejected their defense of free exercise of religion and freedom of expression.
http://www.lambdalegal.org/in-court/...-medical-group

In New Mexico a Christian couple in the marriage photography business were found guilty and charged $6,600 because they declined on grounds of religious principle to photograph a civil commitment ceremony of a lesbian couple.http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=75547

After California voters passed Proposition 8, supporters of Prop I were vilified and harassed. Mormons, in particular, were singled out and widely blamed. Names and addresses of Mormons and others who donated to support Pro 8 were published on the internet. The result was violent threats against, attacks upon, and intrusions upon selected Mormons, their places of worship, their communities, their businesses, and their employment.
http://www.wnd.com/2010/03/127072/

California Musical Theatre Artistic Director Scott Eckern, a Mormon and graduate of Brigham Young University, resigned from his position with the Sacramento theater group on Nov. 12 after undergoing pressure from artists who scorned his decision to give $1,000 to the Yes on 8 campaign.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,459544,00.html

Richard Raddon, Director, Los Angeles Film Festival. Resigned on November 25, 2008, after the LA Film Festival publicly distanced itself from Raddon's actions.[10] Raddon donated $1,500 to Yes on 8.
http://www.alliancesupport.org/news/...es/002506.html

Fred Karger, pro-same-sex marriage activist, filed to revoke LDS Church 501(c)(3) status. "I quite genuinely do not understand how the Mormon Church can keep its federal tax-exempt status after its meddling in Prop 8."
http://www.alternet.org/rights/10880...t_with_prop_8/

"Peter Vidmar, the new head of the U.S. Olympic team criticized for his antigay activism, resigned abruptly Friday, USA Today reports.
There was an immediate storm of negative reaction after the Chicago Tribune reported this week that Vidmar had contributed to the campaign to pass Proposition 8, the 2008 ballot initiative that rescinded marriage rights for California same-sex couples.
http://www.advocate.com/news/daily-n...-chief-resigns

MOUNT DORA, Fla. — He was Teacher of the Year last year, but just days before the new school year begins at Mount Dora High School in Mount Dora, Fla., Jerry Buell has been removed from teaching duties.
His offense?
He said he opposed gay marriage on his private Facebook page.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-marriage.html

A new era of tolerance just days after Prop. 8 passed in California:
http://yesproposition8.blogspot.com/...tolerance.html
http://pool.fairmormon.org/images/a/...ndalism.1B.png
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ate-crime.html
Look at the pictures and read the signs such as "Mormon Scum" http://www.ldsmag.com/church/article/4070?ac=1?ac=1
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/arc...8/nov/08111010
http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_11062014

When a reasonable person sees these images and cases of real intolerance he can make a pretty fair assessment, I think, of who the intolerant bigots REALLY are. And much of it is now government sanctioned and endorsed in some states.

Do you think it is the governments duty to impose a "New Reformation" upon Christianity?

[Jaecp]

Man,

It's almost like most people don't seem to like bigotry

[Hamster]

Do you think it is the governments duty to impose a "New Reformation" upon Christianity?

It happened before to make Utah a state and it happened again in 1978 as a response to boycotts and protests

[KingsGambit]

The government doesn't at all have that power. End of story.

[OtherCheek]

The government doesn't at all have that power. End of story.

The government carries the power of force and police action. It does not matter to a wicked government whether they have the "moral authority" to impose their power or not. If government is controlled by the wrong people, its power will be used in the wrong way, as some of my citations have indicated has already taken place.

[lilpixieofterror]

Man,

It's almost like most people don't seem to like bigotry

So it is now bigotry if people are opposed to gay marriage now? Hummm... how does that work?

[Sparko]

I can see the government trying to force churches to do as they wish by withholding their 501c tax status if they don't comply.

Churches with moral convictions will not allow them to blackmail them though.

I guess if they try it, we will find out which churches are more interested in doing what God says, or in pleasing the government.

[OtherCheek]

I can see the government trying to force churches to do as they wish by withholding their 501c tax status if they don't comply.

Churches with moral convictions will not allow them to blackmail them though.

I guess if they try it, we will find out which churches are more interested in doing what God says, or in pleasing the government.

That's just one aspect, IMO. Other aspects are dismissing public workers due to their convictions and beliefs as has already happened per some of the citations I gave. In these cases, preferential treatment is given by government to those who express their favor for homosexuality, while others are dismissed or forced to resign from their positions because their expressions against it.

Sparko, this is very scary and disturbing. Not the governments power of police and force, (that's nothing), but the fact that you are I aren't at each other's throats for a change.

[Nathan Poe]

Man,

It's almost like most people don't seem to like bigotry

And bigots, like any other cowards, are always looking for something to hide behind.

They'll hide behind "tradition"; they'll hide behind pseudoscience; when all else fails, they'll hide behind religion.

[Sparko]

And bigots, like any other cowards, are always looking for something to hide behind.

They'll hide behind "tradition"; they'll hide behind pseudoscience; when all else fails, they'll hide behind religion.

Gee you sound bigoted against Christians.

[Nathan Poe]

I can see the government trying to force churches to do as they wish by withholding their 501c tax status if they don't comply.

Which has happened before when political organizations try to pass themselves off as religious institutions.

Churches with moral convictions will not allow them to blackmail them though.

And churches without them will sell out. That's one way to tell the sheep from the goats.

I guess if they try it, we will find out which churches are more interested in doing what God says, or in pleasing the government.

Or we'll find out if those churches are more interested their convictions over a tax-free ride. See how that works both ways?

[Sparko]

That's just one aspect, IMO. Other aspects are dismissing public workers due to their convictions and beliefs as has already happened per some of the citations I gave. In these cases, preferential treatment is given by government to those who express their favor for homosexuality, while others are dismissed or forced to resign from their positions because their expressions against it.

Sparko, this is very scary and disturbing. Not the governments power of police and force, (that's nothing), but the fact that you are I aren't at each other's throats for a change.

Check out Canada. already happening there.

[Nathan Poe]

Gee you sound bigoted against Christians.

No, only bigots who use Christianity as an excuse.Problem?

Of course, if you want them, you can have them. Personally, I think Christians would do themselves a favor to flush out the bad apples -- the ones who use "God" for their own agendas rather than let themselves be used by Him for His.

[Sparko]

No, only bigots who use Christianity as an excuse.Problem?

Of course, if you want them, you can have them. Personally, I think Christians would do themselves a favor to flush out the bad apples -- the ones who use "God" for their own agendas rather than let themselves be used by Him for His.

Other than so called christians like the Westboro baptist church, I don't know of any Christian denominations that are bigoted against homosexuals as people. We don't consider homosexuals less than human, or second class citizens, or any way inferior to ourselves or other people. Christians just consider homosexual practices to be a sin, just like we do adultery or sex out of wedlock. We are opposed to gay marriage. But we are also opposed to incestuous marriages, marriages to animals, furniture, or any other erosion of the institution of marriage. And we are joined by most other religions in the world in these convictions.

We don't use religion as an "excuse." We believe that God instituted marriage and created mankind. He sets the rules and we follow them. We do so out of loyalty to God. If someone doesn't want to follow our God and our practices, they are free not to. We don't force them to. But we don't want to be forced to follow secular rules regarding what is essentially a religious area either. If governments want to make gay marriage legal, then they will do so. But they should not force a religious group to have to marry people against their beliefs. The people can always get married by a justice of the peace or by some church that has no objection.

Government has no constitutional right to interfere with religious practices.

[Seasanctuary]

I get "list of horrors" emails like this from Christian family members. What's never quite clear is how they think religious freedom is supposed to work, unless it's that Christians should be able to do anything they want and never face negative reactions for it.