Why do Mormon Churches have "Too Many Women?"

[Cow Poke]

I thought this was a really odd statement. In the "glass half full" kind of logic, it seems that the problem is "not enough men". Or, more specifically, not enough committed men.

In another thread, OC offered this article as (I'm guessing) a rationale for why Smith married other women, and why "plural marriage" was acceptable or even necessary in Smith's day.

Too Many Women?

Many congregations of the international Church struggle with the lack of adequate local priesthood leadership and small numbers of active Melchizedek priesthood holders. A predominance of female attendees is frequently noted. "There are too many women in the [local] Church," stated one mission president. The problem of "too many women" is a frequent theme of discussion by missionaries and mission leaders and has been the target of numerous local initiatives over the years in the form of restrictions on the teaching of women in order to remedy the lack of local priesthood and "fix" the imbalance. Yet official LDS membership statistics today show that 49 percent of LDS members are male, while 51 percent are female. An examination of the membership rolls of most units where the problem of "too many women" is noted typically reveals the presence of a large number of adult male members, the vast majority of whom are inactive. Even in nations where mission leaders have long decried the paucity of local priesthood leadership, national census data show only marginally more female than male members. The 2002 Chilean census demonstrated relative parity between self-identified female and male LDS members, especially among young adults -- 20,985 versus 20,780 in the fifteen to twenty-nine range and 18,700 versus 14,617 in the thirty to forty-four range. The real pathology is not that too many sisters are living their covenants, but that international male activity and retention rates are low.

It really seems that the problem is not "too many women", but "not enough men". Why are the men less committed to Mormonism than women, when there is so much emphasis in Mormonism on "men" -- all the priesthoods, and such?

[Sparko]

Maybe they all snuck off to the local sports bar to have a beer.

[One Bad Pig]

It's not just the priesthood; it's also eternity. Mormon women can look forward to birthing spirit babies and otherwise pretty much being ignored for all eternity in their 'exalted' life.

On the other hand, Mormonism appeals to feelings rather more than the intellect, which would seem to make it more attractive on the whole to females rather than males.

[OtherCheek]

It's not just the priesthood; it's also eternity. Mormon women can look forward to birthing spirit babies and otherwise pretty much being ignored for all eternity in their 'exalted' life.

On the other hand, Mormonism appeals to feelings rather more than the intellect, which would seem to make it more attractive on the whole to females rather than males.

It is a core LDS doctrine that the Institutions of Marriage and Family are ordained of God, and are central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
http://www.lds.org/family/proclamation?lang=eng

One can extrapolate from our doctrine on this matter, that there are no single persons in the highest order of heaven, but that men and women inherit that glory as husband and wife and not singles. If one of the parties is unfaithful to their temple marriage covenants, (which is a 3-way covenant), or is personally unworthy to receive this greatest of God's rewards, (Exaltation), then the other spouse who IS faithful won't be deprived of his or her blessings just because of the unfaithfulness of the one.

A study of memberships AND activity rates in the Church have always indicated that men, generally speaking, are more likely than women to become inactive, fall away, be unfaithful, neglect their duties and responsibilities as fathers and Priesthood holders and JOIN the Church (as adults) at lower rates than women. My own observation in Taiwan, where I served my mission, was that there were 3 times more women than men in the various wards and branches of the Church in that nation. I have heard similar things regarding other countries too.

I know CP want's to characterize everything I say as an official Church statement, but it is my opinion rather that God does not wish to deprive his daughters of his greatest eternal rewards simply because there is a deficiency of worthy men.

Now others can make fun of this belief, and call it horsehockey or whatever they want to, but that's their problem and not mine.

[Sparko]

It is a core LDS doctrine that the Institutions of Marriage and Family are ordained of God, and are central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
http://www.lds.org/family/proclamation?lang=eng

One can extrapolate from our doctrine on this matter, that there are no single persons in the highest order of heaven, but that men and women inherit that glory as husband and wife and not singles. If one of the parties is unfaithful to their temple marriage covenants, (which is a 3-way covenant), or is personally unworthy to receive this greatest of God's rewards, (Exaltation), then the other spouse who IS faithful won't be deprived of his or her blessings just because of the unfaithfulness of the one.

A study of memberships AND activity rates in the Church have always indicated that men, generally speaking, are more likely than women to become inactive, fall away, be unfaithful, neglect their duties and responsibilities as fathers and Priesthood holders and JOIN the Church (as adults) at lower rates than women. My own observation in Taiwan, where I served my mission, was that there were 3 times more women than men in the various wards and branches of the Church in that nation. I have heard similar things regarding other countries too.

I know CP want's to characterize everything I say as an official Church statement, but it is my opinion rather that God does not wish to deprive his daughters of his greatest eternal rewards simply because there is a deficiency of worthy men.

Now others can make fun of this belief, and call it horsehockey or whatever they want to, but that's their problem and not mine.

so what about now, that polygamy is not allowed? What happens to those poor women who don't have a husband and no prospects to get one because there are too many women and not enough men?

[OtherCheek]

so what about now, that polygamy is not allowed? What happens to those poor women who don't have a husband and no prospects to get one because there are too many women and not enough men?

Many things in this life are just "not fair". That's the way life is. It is in the next life that things are made up to God's faithful, and no blessing will be deprived of God's worthy sons and daughters.

[mossrose]

On the other hand, Mormonism appeals to feelings rather more than the intellect, which would seem to make it more attractive on the whole to females rather than males.

I know you are right, but still..............you made me feel bad.

[Sparko]

Many things in this life are just "not fair". That's the way life is. It is in the next life that things are made up to God's faithful, and no blessing will be deprived of God's worthy sons and daughters.

That kinda destroys your last post where you said:

but it is my opinion rather that God does not wish to deprive his daughters of his greatest eternal rewards simply because there is a deficiency of worthy men.

So God gave men polygamy so that the women would not be deprived, yet he took polygamy away and the women will not be deprived. So, in effect, polygamy was never needed in the first place, since they got along without it for the last 100+ years and "life is not fair"

[Cerebrum123]

I thought this was a really odd statement. In the "glass half full" kind of logic, it seems that the problem is "not enough men". Or, more specifically, not enough committed men.

In another thread, OC offered this article as (I'm guessing) a rationale for why Smith married other women, and why "plural marriage" was acceptable or even necessary in Smith's day.

Too Many Women?

Many congregations of the international Church struggle with the lack of adequate local priesthood leadership and small numbers of active Melchizedek priesthood holders. A predominance of female attendees is frequently noted. "There are too many women in the [local] Church," stated one mission president. The problem of "too many women" is a frequent theme of discussion by missionaries and mission leaders and has been the target of numerous local initiatives over the years in the form of restrictions on the teaching of women in order to remedy the lack of local priesthood and "fix" the imbalance. Yet official LDS membership statistics today show that 49 percent of LDS members are male, while 51 percent are female. An examination of the membership rolls of most units where the problem of "too many women" is noted typically reveals the presence of a large number of adult male members, the vast majority of whom are inactive. Even in nations where mission leaders have long decried the paucity of local priesthood leadership, national census data show only marginally more female than male members. The 2002 Chilean census demonstrated relative parity between self-identified female and male LDS members, especially among young adults -- 20,985 versus 20,780 in the fifteen to twenty-nine range and 18,700 versus 14,617 in the thirty to forty-four range. The real pathology is not that too many sisters are living their covenants, but that international male activity and retention rates are low.

It really seems that the problem is not "too many women", but "not enough men". Why are the men less committed to Mormonism than women, when there is so much emphasis in Mormonism on "men" -- all the priesthoods, and such?

Sounds exactly like the Muslim excuse for polygamy.

It's not just the priesthood; it's also eternity. Mormon women can look forward to birthing spirit babies and otherwise pretty much being ignored for all eternity in their 'exalted' life.

The women get a bad rap in the Islamic afterlife as well. Mohammed said that women will be in the majority when it comes to hell. Of course what his description of heaven is would BE hell to most women(unlimited sex with eternal virgins, and rivers of alcohol). Somehow, women are still converting to Islam anyway

[Hamster]

I've heard that Mars needs women

[Cerebrum123]

I've heard that Mars needs moms

fify

[One Bad Pig]

One can extrapolate from our doctrine on this matter, that there are no single persons in the highest order of heaven, but that men and women inherit that glory as husband and wife and not singles. If one of the parties is unfaithful to their temple marriage covenants, (which is a 3-way covenant), or is personally unworthy to receive this greatest of God's rewards, (Exaltation), then the other spouse who IS faithful won't be deprived of his or her blessings just because of the unfaithfulness of the one.

I applaud the desire to not make the woman's fate dependent on her male companion, but I don't see how this could work out. If one partner is 'Exalted' and the other is not, how can spiritual progeny be produced? If the male is unfit to rule his own creation, that kinda leaves the woman stuck, doesn't it?

Then again, I don't understand how someone can be in the celestial kingdom in the presence of the Father AND 'Exalted' to his own kingdom where he's the top god (so the Father is presumably not present) at the same time to begin with.

[One Bad Pig]

The women get a bad rap in the Islamic afterlife as well. Mohammed said that women will be in the majority when it comes to hell. Of course what his description of heaven is would BE hell to most women(unlimited sex with eternal virgins, and rivers of alcohol). Somehow, women are still converting to Islam anyway

From the stories I've heard about women who convert to Islam, that stuff is minimized as much as possible. Muslims seem to focus on charity-based evangelism (outside the prisons, anyway), and try to portray women as equals under Islam.

[Cerebrum123]

From the stories I've heard about women who convert to Islam, that stuff is minimized as much as possible. Muslims seem to focus on charity-based evangelism (outside the prisons, anyway), and try to portray women as equals under Islam.

Yeah, but that portrayal is a facade, and any person who gets into Islam without learning the teachings first is IMO extremely naive. I have been studying the teachings of Islam for some time, and the more I learn about Mormonism, the more I see similarities. Seems like cults have some kind of cookie cutter mold for certain aspects.

[OtherCheek]

I applaud the desire to not make the woman's fate dependent on her male companion, but I don't see how this could work out. If one partner is 'Exalted' and the other is not, how can spiritual progeny be produced? If the male is unfit to rule his own creation, that kinda leaves the woman stuck, doesn't it?

No blessing is deprived the faithful. If a husband on earth is unfaithful, and unworthy to inherit the state of Exaltation, the woman isn't stuck, but can give herself to another (by her and his mutual free will and choosing), who IS worthy.