Naturalism is false

[magellan004]

They are who they are apart from any decision from me. This does not mean that I cannot be mistaken about who I personally believe they are.

Then you could be wrong about whether they are (not just who they are).

Magellan

[ZackMartin]

Hmmm. Intensely personal but I shall try. I do so with some trepidation because there are a few on this site for whom it is very important that I was not a 'real' Christian and it is in their interest to dismiss and devalue my own experiences. Obviously, I do not claim to have heard an audible voice, nor an internal voice speaking particular words. Instead I had what I felt at the time was a strong connection to the person of God. When I read scripture and contemplated it, it seemed to me that images and implications and deep truths came to me out of a state of communion with God which I found very intimate. When I prayed, I would often receive 'answers' in the form of impressions and what I felt were directions for actions. I had a strong sense of the presence of God, especially in communal worship. I was a worship leader in a large church and many people told me the songs I wrote gave them genuine experiences of the Holy Spirit for which they were extremely grateful. Creativity in general I strongly felt was inspired and directed by the Holy Spirit within me. While a member of the church I mentioned (which was AOG) I was 'baptized' in the spirit with physical experiences including but not limited to speaking in tongues. This is all really a small sample.

I have always (I think) been strongly committed to a search for truth wherever it may lead me. As I read more, thought more, matured more I became more and more convinced that though the experiences I had were 'real' I was interpreting them inaccurately. I think knowledge base, culture, experience, expectations and the psychology of group norming tend to have us limit our interpretations of these 'oceanic' perceptions to those with which we are most familiar. I understand those experiences now as part of the common human heritage and either wholly explainable in terms of psychology and neurobiology or possibly faint echoes of a more fundamental unity beyond language.

I guess, you had certain experiences, and you had a certain belief system, and you interpreted those experiences through the lens of that belief system; now you have moved on from that belief system to another, and now interpret those experiences through a rather different lens?

I don't deny your experiences, I've felt somewhat similar things myself, even if in rather different contexts. But I guess, you think now you interpreted them wrong then; well, that's possible, it's also possible you are interpreting things wrong now; maybe your original interpretation was more accurate; maybe neither your original nor your current interpretation is accurate, but there is some more accurate interpretation you are yet to discover?

[pancreasman]

I guess, you had certain experiences, and you had a certain belief system, and you interpreted those experiences through the lens of that belief system; now you have moved on from that belief system to another, and now interpret those experiences through a rather different lens?

I don't deny your experiences, I've felt somewhat similar things myself, even if in rather different contexts. But I guess, you think now you interpreted them wrong then; well, that's possible, it's also possible you are interpreting things wrong now; maybe your original interpretation was more accurate; maybe neither your original nor your current interpretation is accurate, but there is some more accurate interpretation you are yet to discover?

The answer to both questions is an unqualified 'yes'.