Approaching Mormon Doctrine

[OtherCheek]

This article may be helpful for the serious-minded investigator of Mormonism.
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/articl...ormon-doctrine

It outlines some principles that are helpful to consider when researching our beliefs.

[Sparko]

I guess someone should have told Brigham Young all that..

"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture" - B. Young.

[Cow Poke]

From your article....

Based on the scriptures, Joseph Smith declared: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”

Then why can't you get to the best place in Heaven simply by believing in Jesus. Why is Smith necessary. Shouldn't he be just another appendage?

[OtherCheek]

From your article....

Based on the scriptures, Joseph Smith declared: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”

Then why can't you get to the best place in Heaven simply by believing in Jesus. Why is Smith necessary. Shouldn't he be just another appendage?

You can't get to the highest order of heaven without accepting ALL that the Lord has to reveal. And in this dispensation, the Lord has revealed things that heretofore have not been made known to his people. And it came through Joseph Smith. That's my take as an LDS believer.

[Cow Poke]

You can't get to the highest order of heaven without accepting ALL that the Lord has to reveal.

You can't even get a HINT of that from the Bible, OC. Smith inserted himself as a requirement for entry into the highest order of heaven. Even Peter and Paul didn't do that!

And in this dispensation, the Lord has revealed things that heretofore have not been made known to his people. And it came through Joseph Smith. That's my take as an LDS believer.

Well, sure it is. And how do you know this? Joseph Smith said so. Should you believe him? Sure, he was a prophet... how do we know? Because he said so.... and round and round and round we go.

Jesus is all I need. I trust Him who is able to keep me from falling, and to present me faultless before the presence of God's glory with exceeding joy. (That's from the Bible, and it's talking about Christ, not Smith )

[Sparko]

You can't get to the highest order of heaven without accepting ALL that the Lord has to reveal. And in this dispensation, the Lord has revealed things that heretofore have not been made known to his people. And it came through Joseph Smith. That's my take as an LDS believer.

wow, so that means that NOBODY before Smith ever got into the highest heaven. Not even the Apostles will be there. Only Smith and you Mormons. Amazing.

I can see it now... God says "Why sure OC, here ya go, this elevator takes you down, er UP to the "highest heaven." Please step aboard. Don't mind the flames, we have some construction going on.

[OtherCheek]

wow, so that means that NOBODY before Smith ever got into the highest heaven. Not even the Apostles will be there. Only Smith and you Mormons. Amazing.

I didn't say that. And your "inferring" it only reveals your ignorance about LDS doctrine regarding the Spirit World and what goes on there. Also, prophets and apostles don't always reveal every last bit that they know to the people. They only reveal that portion of the word that the people are ready to hear.

[Cow Poke]

I didn't say that. And your "inferring" it only reveals your ignorance about LDS doctrine regarding the Spirit World and what goes on there. Also, prophets and apostles don't always reveal every last bit that they know to the people. They only reveal that portion of the word that the people are ready to hear.

Smith inserted himself into the requirements for attaining the highest level of heaven. No real prophet ever did that. None of your SUBSEQUENT "prophets" have done that, have they? I don't believe God waited nearly 2000 years to add, "Oh, by the way, to REALLY enjoy Heaven, you're going to need to acknowledge one more "prophet" I had never even mentioned before".

[OtherCheek]

Smith inserted himself into the requirements for attaining the highest level of heaven. No real prophet ever did that. None of your SUBSEQUENT "prophets" have done that, have they?

No. These quotes that cause you to squawk so loudly did not come from Joseph Smith. And besides, so what if it was never done before.

[Cow Poke]

No. These quotes that cause you to squawk so loudly

You're doing that drama thing, OC ---- I'm not "squawking", I'm typing... though one of the keys DOES seem to have a bit of a "chirp".

did not come from Joseph Smith.

WHAT quotes, OC?

And besides, so what if it was never done before.

WHAT was never done before? How bout a little less personal invective, and a little more substance?

Let's cut to the chase ... I believe you've agreed to this before, but let me make certain there hasn't been a new revelation ( -- KIDDING, OC)... you believe that it is necessary to accept Smith as a prophet of God to enter the highest form (whatever you want to call it) of Heaven. True?

[Cow Poke]

so what

I just love this apologetics tactic.

[Cerebrum123]

This whole LDS "living prophet" thing, makes me think about how people will claim that "science" is superior to the Bible, because it keeps changing, and correcting it's errors. The problem being, why is it bad for the Bible to stay the same if it everything was right on the first try? OC, why can't God according to LDS, just get everything right the FIRST TIME, and then have to keep changing things so quickly just to keep things going? You don't find this kind of contradiction in the Bible. You do find "fulfillment" in the Bible, but not downright contradiction. Other than in things like Islam, and LDS, where do you find "prophets" contradicting their own "revelations" from God?

[OtherCheek]

This whole LDS "living prophet" thing, makes me think about how people will claim that "science" is superior to the Bible, because it keeps changing, and correcting it's errors. The problem being, why is it bad for the Bible to stay the same if it everything was right on the first try? OC, why can't God according to LDS, just get everything right the FIRST TIME, and then have to keep changing things so quickly just to keep things going? You don't find this kind of contradiction in the Bible. You do find "fulfillment" in the Bible, but not downright contradiction. Other than in things like Islam, and LDS, where do you find "prophets" contradicting their own "revelations" from God?

The world in which we live is not a "steady state world". If it were, then God could probably have only called one prophet-Adam, and no others after him would have been necessary.

[Cerebrum123]

The world in which we live is not a "steady state world". If it were, then God could probably have only called one prophet-Adam, and no others after him would have been necessary.

Can you give me an example of Adam being a prophet(to be a prophet you have to make a few prophecies)? Plus, I'm talking about doctrine that has been "commanded", and then repealed, in a VERY short amount of time.

[Tanakh Keeper]

I personally find these Christian to Mormon exchanges amusing, as it’s the exact same arguments that Christians use on Jews, just in reverse.

1) Christian: Then why can't you get to the best place in Heaven simply by believing in Jesus. Why is Smith necessary?

Mormon: You can't get to the highest order of heaven without accepting ALL that the Lord has to reveal.

2) Christian: You can't even get a HINT of that from the Bible. Smith inserted himself as a requirement for entry into the highest order of heaven. Even Peter and Paul didn't do that! I don't believe God waited nearly 2000 years to add, "Oh, by the way, to REALLY enjoy Heaven, you're going to need to acknowledge one more "prophet" I had never even mentioned before. So that means that NOBODY before Smith ever got into the highest heaven. Not even the Apostles will be there. Only Smith and you Mormons. Amazing.

Mormon: the Lord has revealed things that heretofore have not been made known to his people. And it came through Joseph Smith. That's my take as an LDS believer.

3) Christian: Well, sure it is. And how do you know this? Joseph Smith said so. Should you believe him? Sure, he was a prophet... how do we know? Because he said so.... and round and round and round we go.

And the exact same discussion between a Jew and a Christian

1) Jew: Then why can't you get to the best place in Heaven simply by believing in G-d. Why is Jesus necessary?

Christian: You can't get to the highest order of heaven without accepting ALL that the Lord has to reveal.

2) Jew: You can't even get a HINT of that from the Torah. Jesus inserted himself as a requirement for entry into the highest order of heaven. G-d didn't do that! I don't believe God waited nearly 2000 years to add, "Oh, by the way, to REALLY enjoy Heaven, you're going to need to acknowledge one more "prophet" I had never even mentioned before. So that means that NOBODY before Jesus ever got into the highest heaven. Not even Moses will be there. Only Jesus and you Christians. Amazing.

Christian: the Lord has revealed things that heretofore have not been made known to his people. And it came through Jesus. That's my take as a Christian believer.

3) Jew: Well, sure it is. And how do you know this? Jesus said so. Should you believe him? Sure, he was a prophet... how do we know? Because he said so.... and round and round and round we go.