Approaching Mormon Doctrine

[Cow Poke]

And why did Emma shame Smith into REMOVING the bar from Smith's hotel because "it doesn't appear right for the head of a religious body"? And why is the "defense" of the bar "well, it wasn't SMITH's bar, it belonged to Joe Schmoe who was down on his luck, and Smith was only HELPING him".

FairMormon

The Mansion House

A bar was set up in Joseph's hotel, the Mansion house. Joseph Smith III tells of Emma's return from a journey to find the bar in place. As her biographers tell the story:

...Emma entered the main room of the Mansion House on April 24 [, 1843]. A bar, complete with counter, shelves, and glasses for serving liquor stood in the room. [Orin] Porter Rockwell reigned supreme over it. Emma sent her eleven-year-old son into a meeting to tell Joseph she wished to speak with him; she waited in the hall.

"Joseph, what is the meaning of that bar in this house?" Emma asked with restraint obvious to her young son, who later recorded the confrontation. Joseph explained that a new building across the street was planned for Porter Rockwell's bar and barbershop, but until it could be completed Rockwell had set up the bar in the Mansion. "How does it look for the spiritual head of a religious body to be keeping a hotel in which a room is fitted out as a liquor-selling establishment?" she asked earnestly. Joseph countered that all hotels had their bars, the arrangement was only temporary, and he wanted to make up for Rockwell's months in prison.[7]

© source where applicable

[Sparko]

And why did Emma shame Smith into REMOVING the bar from Smith's hotel because "it doesn't appear right for the head of a religious body"? And why is the "defense" of the bar "well, it wasn't SMITH's bar, it belonged to Joe Schmoe who was down on his luck, and Smith was only HELPING him".

Yeah it's kinda interesting to watch the hemming and hawing as the current LDS tries to come up with excuses for Smith's hypocritical actions. Smith was only concerned with himself and how long he could con the rubes of the day, he really had no clue his con would continue for so long and that others would have to come up with excuses for his actions. I doubt if he would have cared if it did occur to him.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah it's kinda interesting to watch the hemming and hawing as the current LDS tries to come up with excuses for Smith's hypocritical actions. Smith was only concerned with himself and how long he could con the rubes of the day, he really had no clue his con would continue for so long and that others would have to come up with excuses for his actions. I doubt if he would have cared if it did occur to him.

I can just see myself trying to explain to Mrs CP.... "well, yeah, I know I preach against booze, but neighbor Wilson's fridge broke down, and I was just helping him out by storing all that booze in OUR fridge - it's just TEMPORARY......"

I can guarantee you it wouldn't go over very well.


(and "bar and barbershop"???? who'duthunket! -- sounds like something ROGUE would come up with!)

[Sparko]

(and "bar and barbershop"???? who'duthunket! -- sounds like something ROGUE would come up with!)

but it sure explains the horrible haircuts you see in those old photographs. Especially Smith's hairdo!

smith.jpg

[Cerebrum123]

but it sure explains the horrible haircuts you see in those old photographs. Especially Smith's hairdo!

smith.jpg

[Cow Poke]

but it sure explains the horrible haircuts you see in those old photographs. Especially Smith's hairdo!

smith.jpg

Maybe after the right number of drinks, THEN he looks like this....

smith.jpg

[Sparko]

Maybe after the right number of drinks, THEN he looks like this....

smith.jpg

Wine Goggles.

[One Bad Pig]

The 17th Century is the 1600's.

Yep. That would be when wine began to be stored and sold in corked bottles.

Doctrine and Covenants 27:3 Given August 1830:

Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;

But it's okay to purchase anything else from your enemies? Would it be okay to steal wine or strong drink from your enemies? Accept it as a gift? What if someone was neutral towards the Mormons - would it be okay to purchase from them?

[Tanakh Keeper]

Fred P. Miller, a published Bible Commentator who is not LDS, looks at the O.T. and the Hebrew as it pertains to wine. He says there are 11 different Hebrew words referring to wine [or related to grapes]
http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/winebk.htm

I checked out your link's claim of the eleven Hebrew words. The definitions were mostly correct, just had some minor errors with vowel placement or the number of times the word appears in the Tanakh. Only one word definition was wrong.

SOBE : potation (i.e. alcoholic liquor) concr. wine; abstr. carousel. -Translated drink, drunken, wine. Used 1 time as wine.

סוֹבֵא sové means a drunkard, not the wine he drinks.

[Cerebrum123]

I checked out your link's claim of the eleven Hebrew words. The definitions were mostly correct, just had some minor errors with vowel placement or the number of times the word appears in the Tanakh. Only one word definition was wrong.



סוֹבֵא sové means a drunkard, not the wine he drinks.

Thanks TK, that was very informative, and shows just how well OC's source knows what he's talking about.

[nrajeff]

but it sure explains the horrible haircuts you see in those old photographs. Especially Smith's hairdo!

smith.jpg

That's not as bad as your guy's hairdo:

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/images/finney3.gif

[OtherCheek]

Yep. That would be when wine began to be stored and sold in corked bottles.

But it's okay to purchase anything else from your enemies? Would it be okay to steal wine or strong drink from your enemies? Accept it as a gift? What if someone was neutral towards the Mormons - would it be okay to purchase from them?

This is not a prohibition against all purchasing. It is not a sanction of stealing. Enemies do not give gifts to those they hate. A neutral person would not be an enemy.

D&C 27:3-4
3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;

4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth.

[Cow Poke]

This is not a prohibition against all purchasing. It is not a sanction of stealing. Enemies do not give gifts to those they hate. A neutral person would not be an enemy.

D&C 27:3-4
3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;

4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth.

Who did Smith buy wine from in Carthage jail?

[Hamster]

Can we not bring up Christian hair? No one will win

[Sparko]

That's not as bad as your guy's hairdo:

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/images/finney3.gif

whoa! He looks like an Amish Zombie!