The War on Women

[Psychic Missile]

Person A agrees to work for a certain salary. Person B of the opposite gender was able to negotiate a higher salary, and has earned more raises because they work more over time, and take less time off. There are legitimate reasons for their wage disparity, but with this law they are suddenly a victim and can sue or threaten to sue over it even though it has nothing to do with gender discrimination. The goal seems to be to put pressure on businesses to pay everyone the same regardless of whether they have earned the same pay. Especially with with small businesses, they might not be able to stay in business with being forced to give an unjustified raise.

What makes you think this law creates victims? Why do you think this law puts pressure on businesses to pay everyone the same? Why do you think this law forces businesses to give unjustified raises?

[Soyeong]

What makes you think this law creates victims? Why do you think this law puts pressure on businesses to pay everyone the same? Why do you think this law forces businesses to give unjustified raises?

Are you trolling me or are you just dense?

[Psychic Missile]

Are you trolling me or are you just dense?

To be frank, I think the law you oppose exists entirely in your imagination, and your opposition to the actual law is unjustified, so I'd like you to provide evidence for your statements.

[Soyeong]

What makes you think this law creates victims?

Person A agrees to work for a certain salary. Person B of the opposite gender was able to negotiate a higher salary, and has earned more raises because they work more over time, and take less time off. There are legitimate reasons for their wage disparity, so Person A is not a victim of gender discrimination in any way. With this law, Person A is now a victim of gender discrimination on the basis of the wage disparity and can sue or threaten to sue, even though no actual gender discrimination has taken place. Threatening to sue over gender discrimination that isn't actually happening would work because settling out of court and giving in to their unjustified demands would likely be cheaper than going to court over it.

Why do you think this law puts pressure on businesses to pay everyone the same?

By paying everyone the same, they avoid the necessity of keeping meticulous paper work to justify any differences in salary and they avoid the threat of gender discrimination lawsuits that could still come in spite of keeping meticulous paper work. The irony is that this action of protecting themselves against gender discrimination lawsuits would actually be the first instance of gender discrimination taking place because they would be discriminating against people who legitimately earn more money and in favor of people who legitimately earn less money.

Why do you think this law forces businesses to give unjustified raises?

Person A agrees to work for a certain salary. Person B of the opposite gender was able to negotiate a higher salary, and has earned more raises because they work more over time, and take less time off. There are legitimate reasons for their wage disparity, so Person A is not a victim of gender discrimination in any way. If person A can now sue or threaten to sue over the wage disparity despite the fact that there are legitimate reasons for the disparity and no actual gender discrimination has taken place, then the raise they receive will be unjustified.

[Teallaura]

I've yet to find anything that clearly defines why an average salary is a worthwhile comparison. You could only legitimately compare salaries of the same position, and then you would still have to take into account years of experience and general effectiveness. I'd be willing to bet the 'gap' is a product of poor statistical measures. Surprise.

My stat prof considered the mean (average) to be a poor measure of almost anything - and definitely anything complex. Median is better but then you have issues between regions and even states.

Personally, I think the concept of a single measure having any meaningful validity is just foolishness. There are too many factors across too wide a spectrum to actually be able to break it down to a single, even remotely useful, measure.

[Cow Poke]

My stat prof considered the mean (average) to be a poor measure of almost anything - and definitely anything complex. Median is better but then you have issues between regions and even states.

Personally, I think the concept of a single measure having any meaningful validity is just foolishness. There are too many factors across too wide a spectrum to actually be able to break it down to a single, even remotely useful, measure.

Men are smarter. Women are prettier. Nuff said!

[rogue06]

Men are smarter. Women are prettier. Nuff said!

Then why are you... um, never mind. Good morning bro.

[Teallaura]

The problem with that as I have been saying is one employee may work on average 35-36 hours per week (arriving late/taking off early) and taking the equivalent of 3½ weeks off while the other stays late or comes in early averaging 42-44 hours per week and only missed 5 days during the year.

But even that isn't necessarily a good measure.

Let's call your first employee Bob and the second Mary.

Bob leaves taking his two kids to school to his wife and arrives at 8:00. He then spends an hour getting coffee and schmoozing with coworkers.

Mary takes her two kids to school and comes in at 9:00. She grabs her coffee and hits the ground running, tackling her (physical) inbox.


At lunch, Bob makes sure to go out with someone who might be able to help his career and spends an hour and a half glad handing.

Mary heats her Lean Cuisine and answers her email.


That afternoon Bob skips his kid's ballgame and spends two hours ostensibly going over a proposal with the boss. Bob leaves at five.

Mary finishes the actual write up and leaves early for her kid's first recital.


Which one is actually more productive?



Myself, I'd look for another job if Bob got the raise - that boss is incompetent and it's bound to spill over to the rest of the grunts.

[Cow Poke]

Then why are you... um, never mind. Good morning bro.

There ARE exceptions to every rule, and you just popped in to prove it! Mornin' Bro!

[Teallaura]

Men are smarter than cows. Women are prettier than anything. Nuff said!

Fixed it for ya!


































No idea what the point was supposed to be, though...

[Jedidiah]

CP needs a point?

[rogue06]

There ARE exceptions to every rule...

So what's the exception to this rule? And doesn't it therefore falsify the premise of the assertion?

[Teallaura]

CP needs a point?

Of course! It goes well with his pointy head!

[rogue06]

CP needs a point...

...since he's been cultivating the one on the top of his head? pointy-head.gif



Finished it for you Jed

[Teallaura]

...since he's been cultivating the one on the top of his head? pointy-head.gif



Finished it for you Jed