Bad Boys, Bad Boys, Whatcha Gonna do?

[Bill the Cat]

Ghandi led a more Christlike life than a whole lot of Christians do, or have. To say that God casts people off who are "DOERS" more than they are "SAYERS" is ridiculous, IMO.

Gandhi was not a DOER where it was important. He didn't DO what was necessary for salvation.

[Bill the Cat]

New, from Fitty Cent and the Beastie Boys: The CX Rap. "Everybody's doin' the CX Rap!"




Which church remains the true Church?

a) Roman Catholicism;
b) The Orthodox Church(es);
c) Reformationism, which denounced the Papacy and was denounced by it;
d) Chuck Smith's franchise;
e) other (elaborate)

Some "virgin" you got there.

Do you read?

Hegesippus speaks of error as something that can exist within the Church and he speaks of the Church as divisible

[nrajeff]

Gandhi was not a DOER where it was important. He didn't DO what was necessary for salvation.

He didn't convert to LDS and get baptized into the church, if that's what you mean, but the good news is that he may get that chance in the afterlife, thanks to baptism for the dead, and thus may have a chance to do what's necessary for salvation. :)

[Bill the Cat]

BTC 'knows' that Gandhi is in torment in hell at this very moment, so apparently what God wanted to do was teleport him there instead of to a more hospitable eternal destiny.

Gandhi was an unrepentant sinner. He got the sentence for unrepentant sinners.

And Gandhi probably didn't even accuse God of being a liar.... :)

No, he did far worse. He refused to accept Jesus as savior and tried to stand before God in his own righteousness.

[Bill the Cat]

He didn't convert to LDS and get baptized into the church, if that's what you mean,

It's not. He didn't accept the real Jesus as his savior.

but the good news is that he may get that chance in the afterlife, thanks to baptism for the dead, and thus may have a chance to do what's necessary for salvation. :)

Luk 16:26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

Sorry, but no second chance exists.

[nrajeff]

Do you read?

On occasion. Oh, wait--are you asking whether I am ABLE to read?

Hegesippus speaks of error as something that can exist within the Church and he speaks of the Church as divisible

Both of which are possible. Or do you disagree with me and Hegesippus? Not seeing whatever point you are trying to make. You seem to be supporting my point, actually. A collection of believers in some set of beliefs can have rampant errors among them, and be divided by various disagreements, and thus become de-virginized, yet still remain a collection of people who believe some set of doctrines.

[nrajeff]

It's not. He didn't accept the real Jesus as his savior.

Luk 16:26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

Sorry, but no second chance exists.

Who claimed that second chances exist? People who died without a fair opportunity to hear and accept the gospel, never GOT a FIRST chance. Since God is fair (at least I believe Him to be), He is both willing and able to provide such people that FIRST chance after they die.

And when you find out, firsthand, that this is indeed the case, do you still plan to call God a liar to His face?

[Sparko]

Gandhi was not a DOER where it was important. He didn't DO what was necessary for salvation.

exactly. Because Jesus was asked what works someone had to do and he answered thusly:

John 6:28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

[Bill the Cat]

On occasion. Oh, wait--are you asking whether I am ABLE to read?

No. I do not doubt your ABILITY to read... just your DESIRE to do so.

Both of which are possible. Or do you disagree with me and Hegesippus? Not seeing whatever point you are trying to make. You seem to be supporting my point, actually. A collection of believers in some set of beliefs can have rampant errors among them, and be divided by various disagreements, and thus become de-virginized, yet still remain a collection of people who believe some set of doctrines.

Exactly, which answers your question about "which church remains the true church". All of them do, despite minor doctrinal errors.

[Bill the Cat]

Who claimed that second chances exist?

You implied it, whether you realize it or not. Gandhi was presented the Gospel. He rejected it in favor of Hinduism.

People who died without a fair opportunity to hear and accept the gospel, never GOT a FIRST chance.

Ignoring the false doctrine, Gandhi had heard it and had a first chance. He actually had several chances in his lifetime.

Since God is fair (at least I believe Him to be), He is both willing and able to provide such people that FIRST chance after they die.

So, now that you are fully aware of Gandhi's opportunities, are you going to change your tune?

And when you find out, firsthand, that this is indeed the case, do you still plan to call God a liar to His face?

It isn't the case. His Word is clear on that fact.

[nrajeff]

You implied it, whether you realize it or not. Gandhi was presented the Gospel. He rejected it in favor of Hinduism.

"God alone knows" whether a person got a fair chance to hear and accept the gospel in their lifetime. I try to run far away from the job of judging which good people are definitely going to spend eternity in hell. That job is above my pay grade, as Obama would say.

So, now that you are fully aware of Gandhi's opportunities, are you going to change your tune?

Of course not. I will be judged by the criteria I used to judge others (Matt. 7 IIRC) so I want to be judged with as much leniency as is reasonable. I can't know someone else's mitigating circumstances, so if I arrogate to myself the job of judging their worthiness for heaven or hell, I am engaging in a fool's game.

So if you get to heaven and you see that Gandhi got there first, are you gonna tell God that He lied?

[Sparko]

"God alone knows" whether a person got a fair chance to hear and accept the gospel in their lifetime. I try to run far away from the job of judging which good people are definitely going to spend eternity in hell. That job is above my pay grade, as Obama would say.

Yes, thankfully you have Joseph Smith there to check their passports and decide who gets in.

[Bill the Cat]

"God alone knows" whether a person got a fair chance to hear and accept the gospel in their lifetime. I try to run far away from the job of judging which good people are definitely going to spend eternity in hell. That job is above my pay grade, as Obama would say.

That's just plain silly, Jeff. Gandhi was presented the Gospel, and understood it enough to tell others that he liked Jesus' message. The Bible judges his rejection of it, not me. And that judgement is NOT above the Word's pay grade.

Of course not. I will be judged by the criteria I used to judge others (Matt. 7 IIRC) so I want to be judged with as much leniency as is reasonable. I can't know someone else's mitigating circumstances, so if I arrogate to myself the job of judging their worthiness for heaven or hell, I am engaging in an fool's game.

The problem with your argument is that it is neither of our jobs to judge that. It is the Bible's, and the Bible says if you reject Christ, you are damned. Gandhi rejected Christ, therefore he is damned.

So if you get to heaven and you see that Gandhi got there first, are you gonna tell God that He lied?

He won't be there according to the Bible, so that hypothetical is moot.