A User's Guide To Smoking Pot With Barack Obama

[rogue06]

Smoking and possesion of pot ought to be decriminalized. Bullies who harass people shouldn't enjoy special protection and have their actions softened by lies (played a prank) (victim might be gay). Though I respect that its hard to be completely fair minded towards people you support as a political candidate.

I think a far better comparison (and likely the reason the left has essentially dropped the Romney-the-bully line) is that Obama recounted an incident in his memoir “Dreams From My Father” where he once bullied a young girl when he was in school. Big surprise that both have incidents from their childhood that aren't something they want to brag about.

[Ansgar Seraph]

I think a far better comparison (and likely the reason the left has essentially dropped the Romney-the-bully line) is that Obama recounted an incident in his memoir “Dreams From My Father” where he once bullied a young girl when he was in school. Big surprise that both have incidents from their childhood that aren't something they want to brag about.

Not to drag this kicking into the weeds but I'd say that the two incidents were miles apart:

"Dreams From My Father." Obama, Barack. 2007 (2nd Ed.?)

“She’s not my g-girlfriend,” I stammered. I looked to Coretta for some assistance, but she just stood there looking down at the ground. “Coretta’s got a boyfriend! Why don’t you kiss her, mister boyfriend?”

“I’m not her boyfriend!” I shouted. I ran up to Coretta and gave her a slight shove; she staggered back and looked up at me, but still said nothing. “Leave me alone!” I shouted again. And suddenly Coretta was running, faster and faster, until she disappeared from sight. Appreciative laughs rose around me. Then the bell rang, and the teachers appeared to round us back into class.

For the rest of the afternoon, I was haunted by the look on Coretta's face just before she had started to run: her disappointment, and the accusation. . . . I knew only that it was too late for explanations, that somehow I'd been tested and found wanting; and whenever I snuck a glance at Coretta's desk, I would see her with her head bent over her work, appearing as if nothing had happened, pulled into herself and asking no favors.

© source where applicable

I think pushing a girl on the playground at six years old in response to being teased is miles apart from an 18 year-old targeting another student and physically assaulting him. If Romney had looked the least bit distressed about the incident while being interviewed, instead of laughing it away, there may have been some saving grace in his apology.

Any road, comparing Obama pushing a girl when he was six to Romney n' pack forcibly shaving another senior's head because he didn't conform doesn't sit well.

—Sam

[rogue06]

Not to drag this kicking into the weeds but I'd say that the two incidents were miles apart:

"Dreams From My Father." Obama, Barack. 2007 (2nd Ed.?)

“She’s not my g-girlfriend,” I stammered. I looked to Coretta for some assistance, but she just stood there looking down at the ground. “Coretta’s got a boyfriend! Why don’t you kiss her, mister boyfriend?”

“I’m not her boyfriend!” I shouted. I ran up to Coretta and gave her a slight shove; she staggered back and looked up at me, but still said nothing. “Leave me alone!” I shouted again. And suddenly Coretta was running, faster and faster, until she disappeared from sight. Appreciative laughs rose around me. Then the bell rang, and the teachers appeared to round us back into class.

For the rest of the afternoon, I was haunted by the look on Coretta's face just before she had started to run: her disappointment, and the accusation. . . . I knew only that it was too late for explanations, that somehow I'd been tested and found wanting; and whenever I snuck a glance at Coretta's desk, I would see her with her head bent over her work, appearing as if nothing had happened, pulled into herself and asking no favors.

© source where applicable

I think pushing a girl on the playground at six years old in response to being teased is miles apart from an 18 year-old targeting another student and physically assaulting him. If Romney had looked the least bit distressed about the incident while being interviewed, instead of laughing it away, there may have been some saving grace in his apology.

Any road, comparing Obama pushing a girl when he was six to Romney n' pack forcibly shaving another senior's head because he didn't conform doesn't sit well.

—Sam

First, IIRC the incident took place when Obama was in Middle School so he was hardly only "six years old" (in the first months of first grade).

Second, we are comparing Obama's own account of the incident he was involved in to an account about Romney given by folks who admit that they "lean Democratic" (one was a volunteer for the Obama 2008 campaign).

It appears that Obama minimized the incident of his bullying of Coretta. He says that he "gave her a slight shove" yet also acknowledges that she "staggered back" from it. Either Obama was shoving a girl who was much smaller than he was so that a "slight shove" sent her staggering back or it was a bit rougher than Obama wants to admit.

OTOH, the "Washington Post" appears to have decided that the accounts given by folks who "lean Democratic" wasn't dramatic enough so they exaggerated parts of it in their 5400 word hit piece. For instance, in describing the recollection of Romney classmate Stu White WaPo claimed that White had "long been bothered" by the haircutting incident. Yet White told ABC News and others that he wasn't even there when it happened and that he hadn't even heard about it until the WaPo told him about it.

And you appear to have joined in the exaggerating when you depict it as "shaving another senior's head" when all accounts say he (Romney) clipped some of it off with a scissor. Considering that the victim was described as having hair that hung down over one eye and that his family wasn't even aware of the attack (they call the WaPo account "factually incorrect" in a released statement) it is likely all that happened was that the Romney snipped off the hair hanging down and covering his eye. If the guy had his head shaved as you described I don't think his family couldn't have helped but noticed.

Finally, and perhaps picking a nit, even though Romney says he doesn't remember the "prank" at least he apologized. OTOH, while he now says he regretted the shoving incident Obama never apologized.

The above reasons are why I feel the two incidents are comparable (at least more so than Obama's drug abuse) and given the sudden cessation of attacks on Romney wrt to the hair cutting attack it appears I might not be alone.

[Ansgar Seraph]

First, IIRC the incident took place when Obama was in Middle School so he was hardly only "six years old" (in the first months of first grade).

You're right there; I didn't fact-check the age. Obama was ten, not six.

Second, we are comparing Obama's own account of the incident he was involved in to an account about Romney given by folks who admit that they "lean Democratic" (one was a volunteer for the Obama 2008 campaign).

The WaPo story writes that the events were described by five people, speaking independently of each other. Unless we're willing to think that Obama very significantly altered his account or that all five interviewees colluded to fabricate the Romney story, the two events remain very different.

It appears that Obama minimized the incident of his bullying of Coretta. He says that he "gave her a slight shove" yet also acknowledges that she "staggered back" from it. Either Obama was shoving a girl who was much smaller than he was so that a "slight shove" sent her staggering back or it was a bit rougher than Obama wants to admit.

Maybe it was a full shove? Does shoving a girl at recess at age ten, slightly or not, equate to forcibly restraining someone in order to cut his hair?

OTOH, the "Washington Post" appears to have decided that the accounts given by folks who "lean Democratic" wasn't dramatic enough so they exaggerated parts of it in their 5400 word hit piece. For instance, in describing the recollection of Romney classmate Stu White WaPo claimed that White had "long been bothered" by the haircutting incident. Yet White told ABC News and others that he wasn't even there when it happened and that he hadn't even heard about it until the WaPo told him about it.

You're not wrong there, though not quite right: White had been informed about the incident several weeks prior to being interviewed by WaPo. The article now reads:

Mitt Romney's prep school classmates recall pranks, but also troubling incidents. Horowitz. Washington Post. 2012.05.10. Updated 2012.05.11. Accessed 2012.05.27

“I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and said he has been “disturbed” by the Lauber incident since hearing about it several weeks ago, before being contacted by The Washington Post. “But I was not the brunt of any of his pranks.”

© source where applicable

And you appear to have joined in the exaggerating when you depict it as "shaving another senior's head" when all accounts say he (Romney) clipped some of it off with a scissor. Considering that the victim was described as having hair that hung down over one eye and that his family wasn't even aware of the attack (they call the WaPo account "factually incorrect" in a released statement) it is likely all that happened was that the Romney snipped off the hair hanging down and covering his eye. If the guy had his head shaved as you described I don't think his family couldn't have helped but noticed.

You are correct; that was an exaggeration. Let me not exaggerate: "Obama pushing a girl when he was six to Romney n' pack forcibly cutting another senior's hair because he didn't conform doesn't sit well."

I don't think that changes the dynamic, here.

Finally, and perhaps picking a nit, even though Romney says he doesn't remember the "prank" at least he apologized. OTOH, while he now says he regretted the shoving incident Obama never apologized.

That was, undoubtedly, one of the most insincere apologies I've even seen given for such an incident. I haven't apologized to any of the kids I shoved or made of fun of in grade school so that I could feel like I fit in. If I had physically assaulted someone in my senior year of high school, though, I think that I'd owe him a much better apology than what Romney drew forth.

I'd agree that this is nit-picking, indeed.

The above reasons are why I feel the two incidents are comparable (at least more so than Obama's drug abuse) and given the sudden cessation of attacks on Romney wrt to the hair cutting attack it appears I might not be alone.

I can understand people who don't think that an incident of bullying back in the 60's directly impacts Romney's ability to govern today; I certainly don't think that it does, in and of itself. I do think that his response to the incident as it came to light speaks volumes but, again, I can see how others would differ. What I can't stomach, though, is the idea that Romney's forcible assault of another at age 18 is in any way, shape or form comparable to Obama shoving a girl on the playground at age 10. The disconnect between the two ought to be wide enough in everyone's mind that no one tries to make a comparison.

—Sam

[rogue06]

You're right there; I didn't fact-check the age. Obama was ten, not six.

Middle School students tend to range between 11 and 15, do you have a source giving his age as 10 when it took place?

The WaPo story writes that the events were described by five people, speaking independently of each other. Unless we're willing to think that Obama very significantly altered his account or that all five interviewees colluded to fabricate the Romney story, the two events remain very different.

I think its telling that they did so much research into this and never bothered to check anything in Obama's past while he was running for president.

And considering how they massaged the story and White's statement that he only learned about it from WaPo I'm not sure how independent or accurate these testimonies (as reported) are.

Further, Obama is definitely going to spin the shoving incident in a favorable manner whereas witnesses who describe themselves as "leaning Democrat" (with one working for the Obama campaign) are likely to cast the hair cutting in the worst light. Too bad nobody from the press has ever gone back and talked to Obama's school mates. One has to wonder what sort of stories would have been told. I wonder what Coretta would have said about the "slight shove" that sent her staggering.

Maybe it was a full shove? Does shoving a girl at recess at age ten, slightly or not, equate to forcibly restraining someone in order to cut his hair?

Depends. A full shove could definitely result in injuries especially if she did more than just stagger back as Obama claims. Again due to an uninterested press who overwhelmingly backs Obama we only have his account.

You're not wrong there, though not quite right: White had been informed about the incident several weeks prior to being interviewed by WaPo. The article now reads:

Mitt Romney's prep school classmates recall pranks, but also troubling incidents. Horowitz. Washington Post. 2012.05.10. Updated 2012.05.11. Accessed 2012.05.27

“I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and said he has been “disturbed” by the Lauber incident since hearing about it several weeks ago, before being contacted by The Washington Post. “But I was not the brunt of any of his pranks.”

© source where applicable

So the WaPo was forced to change its story when it got caught out. Nevertheless, White told ABC (and others) that he "was not aware of it until this year when he was contacted by the Washington Post." Sounds like WaPo still hasn't come completely clean or else at least one of their sources is not trustworthy.

You are correct; that was an exaggeration. Let me not exaggerate: "Obama pushing a girl when he was six to Romney n' pack forcibly cutting another senior's hair because he didn't conform doesn't sit well."

I don't think that changes the dynamic, here.

If you don't want to exaggerate then perhaps you should stop claiming that Obama was six when the shoving incident took place.

That was, undoubtedly, one of the most insincere apologies I've even seen given for such an incident. I haven't apologized to any of the kids I shoved or made of fun of in grade school so that I could feel like I fit in. If I had physically assaulted someone in my senior year of high school, though, I think that I'd owe him a much better apology than what Romney drew forth.

I'd agree that this is nit-picking, indeed.

I agree it was a less than impressive apology though still more than anything that Obama offered. Still, if Romney sincerely doesn't remember it then really what do you expect?

I can understand people who don't think that an incident of bullying back in the 60's directly impacts Romney's ability to govern today; I certainly don't think that it does, in and of itself. I do think that his response to the incident as it came to light speaks volumes but, again, I can see how others would differ. What I can't stomach, though, is the idea that Romney's forcible assault of another at age 18 is in any way, shape or form comparable to Obama shoving a girl on the playground at age 10. The disconnect between the two ought to be wide enough in everyone's mind that no one tries to make a comparison.

—Sam

I think that one reason that the left has dropped this (at least for now) was the fact that Obama bullied a girl. Considering Obama's desperate attempts to woo the women's vote stories of him pushing a girl around to the delight of his classmates probably wouldn't have played well.



And my purpose for bringing it up was that I think it is a better comparison than Obama's admitted drug abuse not because I think it (or the Romney story) is especially newsworthy.

[Darth Executor]

Nor is it at all comparable to peacefully smoking marijuana with a group of others. Which is what OtherCheek said but he seems to have written with a sarcastic bent.

Him and his friends went drag racing while high and the car he was in got rolled. That's the kind of thing that can get people killed:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ng-choom-gang/

Of course, smoking, drinking and driving on mountain roads could also be a little dangerous. Especially the night they tried drag racing.
The race to the top of Mount Tantalus pitted the “Choomwagon” against another friend’s Toyota. Obama was in the Toyota. The Choomwagon made it to the top first. When the other car didn’t show up, those in the Choomwagon drove back down to find them. Here’s how Maraniss describes what happened next:
“On the way down, they saw a figure who appeared to be staggering up the road. It was Barry Obama. What was going on? As they drew closer, they noticed that he was laughing so hard he could barely stand up.”
His friend had rolled the car. Fortunately, nobody was hurt. And, amazingly, they avoided trouble by leaving the driver alone to deal with the police by claiming it was just an unfortunate “mishap.”

[Darth Executor]

Any road, comparing Obama pushing a girl when he was six to Romney n' pack forcibly shaving another senior's head because he didn't conform doesn't sit well.

—Sam

Was the Romney incident ever actually confirmed? Romney himself said he didn't remember and I recall what was presented as the primary witness admitting he hadn't actually been there himself.

[Nathan Poe]

Anyone who wants to appoint saints to public office is going to find themselves sorely disappointed. Is this really how desperate the muckrakers have gotten?

[OtherCheek]

Was the Romney incident ever actually confirmed? Romney himself said he didn't remember and I recall what was presented as the primary witness admitting he hadn't actually been there himself.

This is the way legends grow. Now it is "head shaved" instead of "hair cut" according to Sam.

[Ansgar Seraph]

Middle School students tend to range between 11 and 15, do you have a source giving his age as 10 when it took place?

In the preceding paragraphs of "Dreams From My Father:"

"Dreams From My Father." Ibid

Nobody played soccer or badminton or chess, and I had no idea how to throw a football in a spiral or balance on a skateboard.

A ten-year-old's nightmare. Still, in my discomfort that first month, I was no worse off than the other children who were relegated to the category of misfits — the girls who were too tall or too shy, the boy who was mildly hyperactive, the kids whose asthma excused them from P.E.

There was one other child in my class, though, who reminded me of a different sort of pain. Her name was Coretta, and before my arrival she had been the only black person in our grade.

© source where applicable

I think its telling that they did so much research into this and never bothered to check anything in Obama's past while he was running for president.

You might get by with saying that they never checked anything this deeply in Obama's past but even that gets to stretching. If anything, this is what happens when the media all starts to act like FOX. Not necessarily a pleasant, necessary or edifying experience.

And considering how they massaged the story and White's statement that he only learned about it from WaPo I'm not sure how independent or accurate these testimonies (as reported) are.

Well, White came forward to correct the account of him in the story; I'd expect the others to do the same if WaPo was reporting them inaccurately.

Further, Obama is definitely going to spin the shoving incident in a favorable manner whereas witnesses who describe themselves as "leaning Democrat" (with one working for the Obama campaign) are likely to cast the hair cutting in the worst light. Too bad nobody from the press has ever gone back and talked to Obama's school mates. One has to wonder what sort of stories would have been told. I wonder what Coretta would have said about the "slight shove" that sent her staggering.

Unless Obama was shoving Coretta with a pair of scissors, it's not going to make the situations any more comparable. Was Lauber forcibly restrained? Did Romney cut Lauber's hair against his will? If that is truly what happened, it doesn't much matter how nice a light someone could put on the incident. It's branding, pure and simple.

Depends. A full shove could definitely result in injuries especially if she did more than just stagger back as Obama claims. Again due to an uninterested press who overwhelmingly backs Obama we only have his account.

Dude — that's just weak. There's simply no comparison to the violence of a ten year-old shoving a girl on the playground and an gang of high school seniors restraining and cutting the hair off another student. Even if Obama had shoved the girl in embarrassment or anger and injured her, the injury would be incidental, unintended. Romney, when he was 18, plotted and led an act of violence, physical and psychological, against another student.

So the WaPo was forced to change its story when it got caught out. Nevertheless, White told ABC (and others) that he "was not aware of it until this year when he was contacted by the Washington Post." Sounds like WaPo still hasn't come completely clean or else at least one of their sources is not trustworthy.

Well, we'll go with the ABC News version, then. Even so, that doesn't contradict Friedemann, Maxwell or Seed, three of the five reported students who recalled the events. Now, we could say that WaPo has exaggerated the account but unless you want to accuse it of creating the story out of pretty much whole cloth, we're still going to be left with the statement of multiple sources that Romney instigated and presided over the physical restraint of a fellow student and the cutting of that student's hair because of his non-conformity. And Romney certainly didn't deny that the incident took place — if someone accused me of doing anything like that in high school, I'd absolutely remember whether I did or did not do something resembling the allegation.

If you don't want to exaggerate then perhaps you should stop claiming that Obama was six when the shoving incident took place.

Rotten C&P laziness. Trying again:

"Obama pushing a girl when he was ten to Romney n' pack forcibly cutting another senior's hair because he didn't conform doesn't sit well."

I agree it was a less than impressive apology though still more than anything that Obama offered. Still, if Romney sincerely doesn't remember it then really what do you expect?

I don't think what Obama did is something that requires seeking out an explicit apology to Coretta at this point. If he were asked about it in an interview, I'm very certain that he would be apologetic about the incident and showcase what he learned from it (the point of including the story in the book, after all). If Romney sincerely doesn't remember that sort of incident, that makes me shudder. How could you forget?

I think that one reason that the left has dropped this (at least for now) was the fact that Obama bullied a girl. Considering Obama's desperate attempts to woo the women's vote stories of him pushing a girl around to the delight of his classmates probably wouldn't have played well.

I would honestly hope that the great number of people would draw a clear distinction between the two incidents. It's just asinine to say that a ten year-old shoving a girl on the playground is equivalent to physical assault by an 18 year-old.

And my purpose for bringing it up was that I think it is a better comparison than Obama's admitted drug abuse not because I think it (or the Romney story) is especially newsworthy.

The purpose of my response wasn't to drag out the story for recall but rather to point out that there really is no comparison to make between the two stories.

—Sam

[Ansgar Seraph]

Him and his friends went drag racing while high and the car he was in got rolled. That's the kind of thing that can get people killed:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ng-choom-gang/

Of course, smoking, drinking and driving on mountain roads could also be a little dangerous. Especially the night they tried drag racing.
The race to the top of Mount Tantalus pitted the “Choomwagon” against another friend’s Toyota. Obama was in the Toyota. The Choomwagon made it to the top first. When the other car didn’t show up, those in the Choomwagon drove back down to find them. Here’s how Maraniss describes what happened next:
“On the way down, they saw a figure who appeared to be staggering up the road. It was Barry Obama. What was going on? As they drew closer, they noticed that he was laughing so hard he could barely stand up.”
His friend had rolled the car. Fortunately, nobody was hurt. And, amazingly, they avoided trouble by leaving the driver alone to deal with the police by claiming it was just an unfortunate “mishap.”

Sheer teenage stupidity which might show a character flaw but, again, nothing compared to premeditated, malicious assault.

—Sam

[Ansgar Seraph]

Was the Romney incident ever actually confirmed? Romney himself said he didn't remember and I recall what was presented as the primary witness admitting he hadn't actually been there himself.

White wasn't the primary witness; he doesn't even appear until halfway through the article.

[Ansgar Seraph]

This is the way legends grow. Now it is "head shaved" instead of "hair cut" according to Sam.

Again, I don't see much difference between the two. Physical assault and forced conformity are the problems here, not the length of hair left on the floor.

[Ansgar Seraph]

I will add that I had to deal with a similar incident while in college: a group of seniors, myself included, were housed in the freshman dorm. One night, while I was in the media lab editing the paper, some of the other seniors, all friends of mine, started shaving the "rat tails" off volunteer freshman. At some point in the night, one of the freshman volunteered but then changed his mind. Instead of letting him be, the seniors who were present and other freshmen cornered the kid in his room and proceeded to shave the rat tail above the belt-line. When I got back ~ 2 A.M., the fallout had already begun. All the involved seniors were disciplined and disallowed from dorming on campus. I spoke, at length, to the freshman victim and I can testify that the least of his concern was just how much hair got shaved. Speaking to my friends, I made it clear just how horrible I thought their actions were, what effect it had on their victim's sense of security and that they had received a lighter discipline than deserved. It wasn't the only stupid thing they had done that year but it was the only one that spoke of an inner brutality, of a humanity that could be discarded in a moment of mob behavior.

So that's why my mind went to shaving Lauber's head rather than "merely" cutting off his longer hairs. The finer points of just what on Lauber's head was removed aren't very important. The physical assault, the psychological attack — those are the things that stick with the victim.

—Sam

[Jedidiah]

How do you feel about all the presidents that drank? Or smoked?

I'm again' 'em!