The things I have noticed about LDS, and Islam.

[Cow Poke]

There is also the phrase "Lying for Jesus", which anti-Christians use frequently. Inspired by the same spirit and influence.

AS for the "same spirit and influence".... you say that like it's a BAD thing. Is it wrong for somebody who believes they were lied to to expose the fact that they believe they were lied to? Does that necessarily suggest an "evil" spirit? (and, no, I'm not claiming that you SAID "evil", but that seemed to be the implication)

[Sparko]

ah yes, just stick the term "anti" in there somewhere and you can safely ignore the topic. Typically mormon of you Othercheek.

[OtherCheek]

AS for the "same spirit and influence".... you say that like it's a BAD thing. Is it wrong for somebody who believes they were lied to to expose the fact that they believe they were lied to? Does that necessarily suggest an "evil" spirit? (and, no, I'm not claiming that you SAID "evil", but that seemed to be the implication)

I think there is an evil spirit which promotes contention, division, bigotry, persecution, anger, half-truths, and a general "don't believe in Christ" type message. I see it in anti-Mormonism and anti-Christianity--both.

[OtherCheek]

Both Islam and LDS have "Lying for the Lord". In Islam it is called taqqiyah.

If I am wrong on this one I am welcome to correction.

I believe the term "Lying for the Lord" is created by anti-Mormons. Much like the terms "Lying for Jesus", "Lying for Christ", and "Lying for God", are all inventions of anti-Christians. Same spirit at work.

[Cow Poke]

I think there is an evil spirit which promotes contention, division, bigotry, persecution, anger, half-truths

OK, that describes the early years of the Mormon Church, but I thought we were talking about the term "Lying for the Lord".

and a general "don't believe in Christ" type message. I see it in anti-Mormonism and anti-Christianity--both.

But if somebody leaves Mormonism because they believed they were lied to, OC, it doesn't make sense to lump them into some kind of "evil spirit which promotes contention, division, bigotry, persecution, anger, half-truths" if they're telling the truth about what they heard and saw with their own ears and eyes.

Like my friends who STILL, by the way, have NOT yet left Mormondom, but are convinced they have been lied to and deceived. Are they "evil" because they believe they have been lied to?

[OtherCheek]

Are they "evil" because they believe they have been lied to?

Nope. But an evil spirit can whisper to anybody, good or bad. And it is an evil spirit still that promotes such things as enmity, anger, contention, division, half-truths, persecution, and bigotry.

[Sparko]

Nope. But an evil spirit can whisper to anybody, good or bad. And it is an evil spirit still that promotes such things as enmity, anger, contention, division, half-truths, persecution, and bigotry.

Oh, so you are talking about nrajeff then.

or do you mean Jo and Franktalk?

[nrajeff]

...an evil spirit can whisper to anybody, good or bad. And it is an evil spirit still that promotes such things as enmity, anger, contention, division, half-truths, persecution, and bigotry.

Oh, so you are talking about nrajeff then.

Yes, he was talking about me... being whispered to by you.

[Cow Poke]

Nope. But an evil spirit can whisper to anybody, good or bad. And it is an evil spirit still that promotes such things as enmity, anger, contention, division, half-truths, persecution, and bigotry.

Again, OC -- you're describing the early years of your Church, with quite a bit of this INTERNAL, not external.

[OtherCheek]

Again, OC -- you're describing the early years of your Church, with quite a bit of this INTERNAL, not external.

I didn't live back in the 19th Century and I can't judge those people of the 19th century by the standards of presentism. As for today, in my own time period, what I see is the same spirit promoting such things as enmity, anger, contention, division, half-truths, persecution, and bigotry with both the anti-Mormons as with the anti-Christians.

[Cow Poke]

I didn't live back in the 19th Century and I can't judge those people of the 19th century by the standards of presentism.

Oh, horsehockey, OC -- you didn't live in Jesus' day, either, but you can declare that he WHIPPED people and destroyed personal property. Presentism Schmesentism!

As for today, in my own time period, what I see is the same spirit promoting such things as enmity, anger, contention, division, half-truths, persecution, and bigotry with both the anti-Mormons as with the anti-Christians.

Yes, the same spirit as was existing in the early years of your Church --- but you close your eyes to that and declare "presentism"!!!!

[Cerebrum123]

New addition to similarities.

Both Islam and LDS make works necessary for salvation

[OtherCheek]

Oh, horsehockey, OC -- you didn't live in Jesus' day, either, but you can declare that he WHIPPED people and destroyed personal property. Presentism Schmesentism!

Declare? Love the drama, CP. Actually it is more "opinion" that Jesus destroyed personal property, and I have no problem with that. He commanded prophets of old to do so, and I have no problem with Him doing it himself. But you seem to think that it would detract from his attributes of perfection if he did destroy personal property.

Yes, the same spirit as was existing in the early years of your Church --- but you close your eyes to that and declare "presentism"!!!!

As for today, in my own time period, what I see is the same spirit promoting such things as enmity, anger, contention, division, half-truths, persecution, and bigotry with both the anti-Mormons as with the anti-Christians.

[OtherCheek]

New addition to similarities.

Both Islam and LDS make works necessary for salvation

LDS believe that "Faith w/o works is dead." You don't?

[Cerebrum123]

LDS believe that "Faith w/o works is dead." You don't?

I posted the very verse that says that in response to your post that "belief is not sufficient", but I gave an explanation for it, and why faith through grace is what grants salvation. Maybe you should go an reread that one.