Does your pet have free will?

[ttruscott]

So you accept that you have free will here on earth? How do you define it? If a gun to your head is not free will, how about a threat about tomorrow or your mother scolding you about an issue years ago that you have forgotten about it but the influence lingers??

If our ordinary everyday decision making is free will, how would you deny that your cat has free will? Our dogs make decisions all the time and they even "sin" by choosing to do things they know are forbidden. Wherein is this different from us?

Does a trained pet still have free will? A conditioned pet? What about a wild animal, full of instincts and reactions?

Is this type of decision making free enough to make you guilty of eternal sin, worthy of being damned without salvation? And if it is not, why then are we stuck with it? Is GOD unable to do better or does it not matter?

Peace, Ted

[shunyadragon]

So you accept that you have free will here on earth? How do you define it? If a gun to your head is not free will, how about a threat about tomorrow or your mother scolding you about an issue years ago that you have forgotten about it but the influence lingers??

I believe we have the possibility of limited free will. Most of our decision making process is heavily controlled by, survival mechanisms, culture, and nurture, and we by and large follow the herd or maybe the pack.

If our ordinary everyday decision making is free will, . . .

Not necessarily so, we do make decisions in our everyday life, such as; what clothes to wear, what food to eat, and where to go on vacation, but most of this decision making process falls within limited decision making parameters, and follows a chaos model of choices. We rarely make decisions outside the norm.

. . . how would you deny that your cat has free will? Our dogs make decisions all the time and they even "sin" by choosing to do things they know are forbidden. Wherein is this different from us?

There amount of possible choices in their decision making process is more limited than ours. You must take into consideration that your pet's world is no longer their natural world, but they tend to consider the family like a wolf pack with a hierarchy like the pack. Your dogs are naturally wolves, and follow pack decision making processes of pack organization.

Does a trained pet still have free will? A conditioned pet? What about a wild animal, full of instincts and reactions?

Not much, but than again our decision making process is full of instincts and reactions to our culture, and environment.

Is this type of decision making free enough to make you guilty of eternal sin, worthy of being damned without salvation? And if it is not, why then are we stuck with it? Is GOD unable to do better or does it not matter?

The concepts of traditional Christian guilt, sin, good and evil, and free will is a rather confused, ancient, and archeac world view thing. Something like living in Plato's cave.

[Theolog]

"Behold! the Lamb of god that takes away the sins of the world". Christs blood should cover your little doggie if need be.

[KingsGambit]

"Behold! the Lamb of god that takes away the sins of the world". Christs blood should cover your little doggie if need be.

I don't think that's what that verse means.

[ttruscott]

Well guys, it seems like although we have restrictions on the freedom of our wills, dogs are worse of than we are, constrained by much more.

But what would it look like if we removed the constraints upon our will so that there can be no coercion upon our choices from anywhere?

1. Free will can't be coerced:
Nothing in our created nature could force us to choose love or hate, good or evil. (ie genetics, biology, any propensity to seek good or evil)

Nothing in our experience could force us to choose love or hate, good or evil. (no experience of GOD's power or divinity, for instance)

Nothing in our understanding or knowledge of reality could force us to choose good or evil, love or hate. (All teaching about reality or the future or morality would have to be without proof or this proof would influence /constrain them to choose what was best for their self interest only, not their true deepest desire.)

So, if it could be set up so all these human constraints upon the freeness of our will could be removed,

would in fact, our decision making actually be fully free from coercion?

Peace, Ted