SANCTIFICATION: Process or Gift?

[Daniel7:14]

Those that died in the Wilderness did so because of their unbelief - no different than the world. Those that entered into the promised land - still needed a Savior - they were not without sin. However, I do understand it as an "polar-opposite" example for us today (as well as through all time). The believer vs. the unbeliever.

I don't mean to get "off-topic" - but the entering in - would be the completion/finality, either individually or corporatelly for all mankind? While that shows us the "end" there is much that precedes it relative to theology!

Moses - THE LAW - could not take the believer "over" - yet, even as Moses was permitted to "see" - THE LAW was a "picture" of the fullness of the promise/ the inheritance.

Sorry if I "missed" staying on topic.

Bless,

Dan

[Rdr. Arsenios]

Those that died in the Wilderness did so because of their unbelief - no different than the world.

They became doers of iniquity in the wilderness, which indeed is unbelief...

Those that entered into the promised land - still needed a Savior - they were not without sin.

But the Typos is the crossing of the River Jordan, a Type of Christ's Baptism in the same river, of which the crossing of the Red Sea was as will a Type... The Giants were not encountered until AFTER they entered the Promised Land, which they had to conquer... And indeed Christ was not given His three temptations from Satan Himself until AFTER His 40 days and nights in the wilderness... And likewise, we who are Baptized into Christ have our greatest challenges to overcome AFTER that baptism... Entry into the Promised Land is NOT the last step...

However, I do understand it as an "polar-opposite" example for us today (as well as through all time). The believer vs. the unbeliever.

The Typos is between those who overcome temptations and those who for whatever reason do not...

The entering in - would be the completion/finality, either individually or corporatelly for all mankind?

No, it makes the availability for all, and the entry in Baptism needs then to overcome the Giants on the other side of the Jordan - As David destroyed Goliath... IN the Promised Land... The goal is Mount Tabor, where Iacovos, Peter and John saw Christ coming in power...

While that shows us the "end" there is much that precedes it relative to theology!

There is much that follows it, and not relative to "theology" but to overcoming demonic powers in one's self...

Moses - THE LAW - could not take the believer "over" -

That has never been the goal...

Arsenios

[Daniel7:14]

George,

We walk in the wilderness, indeed, I want to think it as two-fold: The first is this "temporary" world, for we are "wanderers and sojourners". No different than Israel.

Two: we indwell in this "earthly" tabernacle, soon to be dissolved. No different than all natural, fallen men.

Yet, the fall of Jericho was the "end" of the Typos, relative to O.T. Israel, showing their resurrection and inheritance.

While "Jesus" took them "over", according to the provision of the Ark, they still did not inherit the promised land. They had a powerful entity, blocking their entrance, they were "captives" at that location, even though the Ark was among them. However, with the partaking of Passover...and their....CIRCUMCISION...they marched around Jericho, and it was the work of God that destroyed the "stronghold" preventing them from receiving their inheritance, Eph. 4:8 (Lk. 4:18) .

First the blood (Christ), that led to escape from Egypt (death), then the baptism (Holy Spirit) and the destruction of our enemies (power over us). Then what follows is the journey and the required obedience. After the journey is complete...we rest from all our labors, and with the final trump, receive the fullness of our inheritance, according to Paul, II Tim. 4:8.

We see that the "effects" of the provision of the Ark, standing in Jordan, reaches all the way back to a place called "Adam".

While "natural" Israel still had "things" to deal with, for they were living out their eathly existence, their "story" continued to unfold, but no longer related, one to one, to our faith walk. Do not confuse the on-going saga of Israel with us, because Christ had yet to come. Once we cross Jordan, we receive our eternal inheritance, our "walk, journey" is over. The obstacle Israel faced is no longer there, being destroyed by God, so that we enter in. That is the difference.

Bless

Dan

[Rdr. Arsenios]

George,

We walk in the wilderness, indeed, I want to think it as two-fold: The first is this "temporary" world, for we are "wanderers and sojourners". No different than Israel.

Two: we indwell in this "earthly" tabernacle, soon to be dissolved. No different than all natural, fallen men.

Yet, the fall of Jericho was the "end" of the Typos, relative to O.T. Israel, showing their resurrection and inheritance.

While "Jesus" took them "over", according to the provision of the Ark, they still did not inherit the promised land. They had a powerful entity, blocking their entrance, they were "captives" at that location, even though the Ark was among them. However, with the partaking of Passover...and their....CIRCUMCISION...they marched around Jericho, and it was the work of God that destroyed the "stronghold" preventing them from receiving their inheritance, Eph. 4:8 (Lk. 4:18) .

First the blood (Christ), that led to escape from Egypt (death), then the baptism (Holy Spirit) and the destruction of our enemies (power over us). Then what follows is the journey and the required obedience. After the journey is complete...we rest from all our labors, and with the final trump, receive the fullness of our inheritance, according to Paul, II Tim. 4:8.

We see that the "effects" of the provision of the Ark, standing in Jordan, reaches all the way back to a place called "Adam".

While "natural" Israel still had "things" to deal with, for they were living out their eathly existence, their "story" continued to unfold, but no longer related, one to one, to our faith walk. Do not confuse the on-going saga of Israel with us, because Christ had yet to come. Once we cross Jordan, we receive our eternal inheritance, our "walk, journey" is over. The obstacle Israel faced is no longer there, being destroyed by God, so that we enter in. That is the difference.

Bless

Dan

Dan, you are lost in worldly theology...

Baptism enters you into the wilderness if you follow Christ, and not into the Promised Land... You will be tempted, as Christ was tempted... And if you persevere to the end, you shall be saved... That salvation is to have by Grace that which Christ had by His very Nature...

Arsenios

[Daniel7:14]

I certainly am missing something!

Twice now you have responded to positions or comments that I am certain that I have not made.

First you were concerned that I was attempting to "divide" Christ - Man from God (or vice-versa) - yet I did not indicate that anywhere in my post.

Now you suggest that I have a concept of "worldly theology" - again - I don't see where I wrote that.

Your response was that our "walk" is found - ONCE - we cross Jordan - you spoke of us having to face our "...giants..."

I did not agree with that, as I clearly laid out that our walk begins:
1: With the application of the blood - as in the escape from Egypt
2: Partaking of the baptism: I Cor. 10:1-4, "...eating the same spiritual meat and drinking the same spiritual drink..."
3. Wandering in the wilderness being sojourners - Jn. 15:19, "...If you were of the world, the world would love its own, but because you are not of this world.." You will find those words to be the words of Christ, as he was speaking to his disciples.
4: As we end our earthly journey:
I Cor. 5:6, "...knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord; :7, "...We are confident and willing rather to be absent from the body and...present...with the Lord.
Surely you accept the fact that while we leave our early body behind, our eternal being/spirit, goes into the presence of God?
5: I Thes. 4:14, "...For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so...THEM...also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him..."
6: I Cor. 15:51, 52, "...I show you a mystery, we shall not all sleep, ,but we all shall be changed; ...the dead shall be raised and we shall be changed..."

That is as fundamental as scripture gets.

Rm 8:11, "...But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies..."

Yes, baptism of the Holy Spirit empowers us into Eternal Life. It enters us into our "walk", even as Israel entered the wilderness, no different than us, no different than I said earlier.

It is obvious that you cannot correlate the events surrounding Israel in Joshua; their crossing; their partaking;, Jericho; their march around Jericho; to the eternal work of Christ.

Once you "see" what the Spirit offers there, you will understand the destiny for Israel.

Bless

[Rdr. Arsenios]

Now you suggest that I have a concept of "worldly theology" - again - I don't see where I wrote that.

I said you are lost in worldly theology - the theology of the Jews... You had written:

Once we cross Jordan, we receive our eternal inheritance, our "walk, journey" is over. The obstacle Israel faced is no longer there, being destroyed by God, so that we enter in. That is the difference.

The crossing of the Jordan was a type of Baptism, and just as the Jews found that they still had to fight the Giants in the Promised Land, so we too must, if we are to follow Christ... Remember what Christ did after He was Baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan??? Indeed the Jews crossing the Red Sea STILL needed to do, as a type, what Jesus did, and what we do after Baptism, IF we are followers of Christ...

And just slaying Goliath is not enough, for David later fell to Bathsheba in lust and murder...

It ain't over till it's over, hence the injunction to persevere to the end, so that you SHALL be saved...

But Israel fought the Giants WITHIN the Promised Land, AFTER crossing Jordan, no question...
And Christ did 40 days of prayer and fasting in the desert AFTER being Baptized in the Jordan...

No "home free" just for "crossing the Jordan", as you insist...

Arsenios

[Daniel7:14]

Geo,

You are certainly correct: "...it ain't over, til it's over..."

I can hardly be "lost" in worldly theology...unless...I happen to have a concept of worldly theology, and what it entails, and adhere to the parameters of it?

I must come to the conclusion that you adhere to: Two baptisms; Two baptisms of the Holy Spirit? One after the blood has been applied and the other after we have completed our journey for a generation?

You certainly agree that as Paul cited to the Corinthians - all were baptised through the crossing of the Sea (under the cloud)- yet there was another "crossing" that was required - and that was Jordan.

Jordan was a barrier to the inheritance of the Promised Land, as it still had not been crossed, surely you know that. The "crossing" of Jordan represents passing from this natural life into eternity. However, the Jordan was not the last..."barrier"...they faced. Jericho, which represents the power and dominion to keep them from their inheritance was the last barrier. This is the power of the grave, not the "hole in the ground", but the realm that is spoken of in Lk. 16:20 - 31.

The power of Satan over "fallen" man. The same that Christ addresses as he speaks in Lk. 4: I8, "...to preach deliverance to the captives..." I am certain that you can draw the parallel. All the criteria of both situations are identical. One in the natural, the other in the spiritual.

The first crossing, following the sacrificial lamb, was in completion of their deliverance of captivity, of death, the slaying of the power of their enemy. That is a one-to-one correlation to our own gift of salvation. That is the blood and the baptism.

Yes, Christ went into the wilderness for 40 days, after his baptism - but he had already been baptized (through the sea and under the cloud) and wandered in the wilderness for 40 years. What he presented then as a "type and shadow", with O.T. Israel, he would fulfill in his natural walk. One could even make the case that Israel went through it, because Christ "would" go through it, and that they were a mere reflection of his work!

Even as he endured the judgement for all our sins, he, as then, is also present in each and everyone's journey through the "wilderness". This is our wilderness. We are not of this world, but we have been chosen out of the world. Even as Christ was not of this world. This is our wilderness.

Even as you must make the "break" between Moses and Joshua (the Law vs. Grace), you must also make the "break" between the spiritual example we are given for Israel (with the entering into the land) to the natural continuance of the natural Israel, once they have entered into the land. The spiritual parallel ceases upon the destruction of Jericho and their obtaining the land.

The reason for this discontinuance is simple: ISRAEL (AS WELL AS US ALL THROUGH CHRIST) HAS OBTAINED THE PROMISE, JUST AS WE DO. There is "only" (forgive my poor choice of words) eternity "left", whether separation from God, or eternal Life. The spiritual presentation is finished.

Once again, I am not screaming, I do not know how else to emphasize the point. on this computer

[Daniel7:14]

(cont)
I type quite slow and have managed to "lose" several on-going responses due to being "timed-out". That is why I stopped with the earlier post.

I am enjoying the give and take - but I think the issue is my poor presentation of what I am suggesting. I am certain that we agree to the "typos" (as you say), but I am definitely having difficulty in offering my perspective to you.

We are born again (Lamb)
We are baptized with the Holy Spirit (crossing of the Sea)
We enter into our calling faithfully (walk in the wilderness)
We pass from this life into eternity, leaving our body behind (crossing Jordan)
We enter into the presence of the Lord (entering into the land)
We return with the Lord, on that Great Day
Our eternal spirit is re-united with our "glorified" body
We dwell in the presence of the Lord------FOREVER----

Bless,

Dan

[Daniel7:14]

Geo,

That last barrier still stands for us, as the "last" enemy has not yet been destroyed, I Cor. 15:26.

[hedrick]

There IS a sense in which we enter ever more deeply into the Faith, becoming more faithful, and overcoming more and more temptations to sin - This is called MATURING in the Faith... We become gradually more and more inured to sin's temptations as we grow and mature... Do you see holiness [sanctification] as the result of this hardening against sin?

Arsenios

I would agree with you that the term "sanctify" and related are normally used in the NT for something God does to set us apart. Protestants at times refer to this is "positional sanctification." That we have a life-long battle I think we all agree. Scripturally it might be better to call it ongoing repentance. I'm not sure quite why the term "sanctification" came to be used for it. I've looked at a couple of online presentations of sanctification, and I'd say that the Scriptural basis for that terminology seems weak.

I just checked the Institutes. Calvin uses the term a couple of times in the conventional Protestant way, but he also uses it in ways closer to yours. Mostly he refers to a Christian life based on repentance and self-denial.

Westminster certainly describes sanctification as a work of God in us. The section on sanctification isn't that far from your view, though they indicate that it isn't complete in this life. Similarly, Heidelberg doesn't seem to use sanctification as a technical term for our ongoing Christian life. It uses it seldom, primarily in Biblical quotations.

RBerman's analysis is a common one, which I've used as well. But that use of terms isn't so clear in our foundational documents.

[Rdr. Arsenios]

I would agree with you that the term "sanctify" and related are normally used in the NT for something God does to set us apart. Protestants at times refer to this is "positional sanctification." That we have a life-long battle I think we all agree. Scripturally it might be better to call it ongoing repentance. I'm not sure quite why the term "sanctification" came to be used for it. I've looked at a couple of online presentations of sanctification, and I'd say that the Scriptural basis for that terminology seems weak.

I just checked the Institutes. Calvin uses the term a couple of times in the conventional Protestant way, but he also uses it in ways closer to yours. Mostly he refers to a Christian life based on repentance and self-denial.

Westminster certainly describes sanctification as a work of God in us. The section on sanctification isn't that far from your view, though they indicate that it isn't complete in this life. Similarly, Heidelberg doesn't seem to use sanctification as a technical term for our ongoing Christian life. It uses it seldom, primarily in Biblical quotations.

RBerman's analysis is a common one, which I've used as well. But that use of terms isn't so clear in our foundational documents.

Thank-you - A very helpful post...

Maturity in the Faith is a product of the acquisition of virtue in overcoming sin in us...

There is another thing that often goes hand in hand with this maturing in the Faith, and that is the acquisition of the Grace of the Holy Spirit, and this is the possession of Saints who work wonders and prophesy...

Sanctification itself seems more as you say, which is the setting apart unto God from those called out from the world who are still in the world but not of the world... And this means, in terms of the action of God, Baptism into the Body of Christ... In that action, we are purified in the waters, and conjoined with the Holy Spirit immediately following, and are therein pure and holy, cleansed and set apart unto God...

I think RB is confusing sanctification with the acquisition of the Grace of the Holy Spirit, when it is in fact the con-joining of the Holy Spirit to man that constitutes our sanctification of entry into the Body of Christ...

But he would have to be the one to evaluate that assessment...

Arsenios

[Xian-Pugilist]

Is sanctification a gift of the Holy Spirit? Or is it something we gradually acquire through repentance?And this again tells us that sanctification is of the Spirit and a MEANS of Salvation...

So what IS Sanctification, and how does the Bible tell us it is acquired?

Arsenios

Sanctification is a word. Period.

The word is used to describe multiple events/things/people/states.

I have a Stake in Microsoft.
I have a Stake in my tent.

They are the same word, but not the same meaning.

The super simple answer here is...

You are sanctified/set apart at atonement/freedom from sin/when you are saved.

That starts a process where you are changed and MADE to exist apart from others. That finished product of remaking is Sanctified.

You see atonement/salvation to be the first step towards the finished Sanctification where you are not just considered set apart through Grace, but are made differently to be apart in maturity/perfection in Romans 6:22

Freed from sin<<<< salvation<<<< slave to God>>>> obedience/trials and tribulations >>>>>> receive a benefit>>>>> Spirit gal 5:16/Seed 1 john 3:9, that leads to sanctification.

In that verse the topic is on maturity, so sanctify is used for the finished process, not the salvific process.

The answer to your question is quite simply the word means both. Context determines which it is.

Teaching people the word is the same everytime they read it would have lavers, and sheep going to heaven filled with the Holy Spirit.

I have a Stake in Microsoft, And a STAKE in my tent.

[Rushing Jaws]

Is sanctification a gift of the Holy Spirit? Or is it something we gradually acquire through repentance?

1Co_1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This tells us that Christ Jesus IS our sanctification...

1Th_4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

This tells us that abstaining from fornification accords with God's will that IS your sanctification...

1Th_4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

This tells us that it is our possession in our body...

2Th_2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord,
because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This tells us that salvation is through sanctification of the Spirit, AND... Belief of the Truth...

1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
through sanctification of the Spirit,
unto obedience
and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

And this again tells us that sanctification is of the Spirit and a MEANS of Salvation...

So what IS Sanctification, and how does the Bible tell us it is acquired?

Arsenios

## It's a gift, a vocation, and a task. I think :) A many-splendoured and rich reality.

[footwasher]

Arsenios wrote:

Is sanctification a gift of the Holy Spirit? Or is it something we gradually acquire through repentance?

1Co_1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This tells us that Christ Jesus IS our sanctification...

This tells us that we have a relationship with Christ, making possible , not inevitable, sanctification.

1Th_4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

This tells us that abstaining from fornification accords with God's will that IS your sanctification...

This tells us that abstaining from fornification is God's requirement, just as IS your sanctification...

1Th_4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

This tells us that it is our possession in our body...

This tells us that every believer should know what God requires of you in your stewardship of your life.

2Th_2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This tells us that salvation is through sanctification of the Spirit, AND... Belief of the Truth...

This tells us that God's chosen method of saving you is through belief of the truth, leading to sanctification by the Spirit.

1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

And this again tells us that sanctification is of the Spirit and a MEANS of Salvation...

This tells us that sanctification by the Spirit enables obedience of the requirement to be like Jesus.

So what IS Sanctification, and how does the Bible tell us it is acquired?

Sanctification is that state required by God, made possible, not inevitable, by the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 10:26-27 NET
For if we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins is left for us, but only a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a furyof fire that will consume God’s enemies.

Formerly, those who believed God were kept in safe custody by the Law. After the Cross, believers can live the way God planned for them to live. Are we believers?

[Abelard]

To borrow a bit from Luther and Wesley, imagine a person who has never heard a piano or music being put in a room with a piano. They might find it interesting, but it would remain a relatively foreign object. When someone comes in and begins to play Mozart, they not only understand what the instrument does but they also fall in love with the music.

The falling in love with music is quite beyond any act of personal will, and this grace combined with observing the playing is justification. A gift of grace which puts the understanding of the piano and the love music into the correct perspective.

Learning to play the piano and develop talent and fluency are impossible without this initial justification, but if the player perseveres that can develop the skills and muscle memory they can become pianists. This is sanctification, continuing to practice adherence to Christian life as it gradually becomes a second nature.