June 2012 Screwballs

[jpholding]

Not exactly a Screwball, but news that deserved to be shared. Daniel Peterson, head apologist at the Mormon group FARMS, and with whom I had a rhubarb ages back (until he found he needed my input on Earl Doherty)....is leaving FARMS Review in a huff, or has done so:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,533024

[Rayado]

I've heard elsewhere he was fired, but either way, I saw this coming YEARS ago.

[KingsGambit]

Not going to quote it in reply, but I actually did find OBP's reply to the deafness issue to provide lots of good food for thought, and made me rethink the issue from an initial perspective of skepticism. I do wish he would have responded to the section about the social implications of deafness then and today rather than just providing a sarcastic smiley - it was by far MM's strongest argument.

[Manwë Súlimo]

I'm going to ostracize Dr. Licona for his choice in shirts.

[jpholding]

I'm going to ostracize Dr. Licona for his choice in shirts.

I think he may be sensitive about that because I once told him he looked like Bear Grylls when he wore those leather coats.

[Mountain Man]

Not going to quote it in reply, but I actually did find OBP's reply to the deafness issue to provide lots of good food for thought, and made me rethink the issue from an initial perspective of skepticism. I do wish he would have responded to the section about the social implications of deafness then and today rather than just providing a sarcastic smiley - it was by far MM's strongest argument.

If anybody wants to discuss the issue further (and it really is a very deep and complex issue), I would be game to take the discussion to a new thread in the appropriate forum rather than pursing it here which I don't think would be appropriate for a number of reasons.

[Mountain Man]

Since this is posted here, I will go ahead and respond here, but it will be my last post on the matter in this thread:

You are aware of my further qualification for why I made the comparison, so you understand that I do not in any way associate deafness with sin. Try responding to my actual argument rather than one that makes you feel more indignant.

I'm not suggesting that it is a salvational issue. I'm commenting on the willful blindness of the mindset.

I agree. It is, however, absurd to equate deafness with being left-handed or having dark skin (with the exception that each characteristic has been the target of discrimination in some cultures).

And lame people can do everything except walk. Just because deaf people do not find life more difficult does not negate the fact that life is more difficult.

Good - but that was the impression I got of deaf culture in general from your earlier post.
Yes. Then again, all people should think of themselves as morally defective and pray to be made sinless.

People would often rather believe a comforting lie than the disturbing truth.

There is something wrong with him. To say otherwise is to stick one's head in the sand. The human body is designed to be hearing.



I'm fairly certain that every single healing Jesus did fundamentally altered who the healee was as a person and how he related to the world and other people. For that matter, so does salvation.

Having said the above, I readily grant that dealing with a disability can be a blessing in disguise. It forces people to adapt and overcome, and can deepen their faith and prepare them for other trials that may come along. People who have dealt with adversity are in a better position to help others going through the same thing.

I don't suppose you have any idea that you're coming across as a particularly hateful bigot. There is a very rich and proud history behind modern Deaf cultural, and to be so stubbornly dismissive of it as you are being is appalling and shameful. Deaf people are not "defective", and the ease with which they accept their condition and serve as functional and contributing members of society is not "a comforting lie". You say, "Just because deaf people do not find life more difficult does not negate the fact that life is more difficult." Seriously, what do you know about it? Are you Deaf? Do you know anyone who is Deaf? Do you have even the slightest clue what it means to be Deaf? (Note the capital letter. It's there for a reason.) It is the arrogance of the majority to assume the minority want to be just like them.

You say you're not suggesting that it's a salvational issue, but when I ask if you think Deaf should pray to be made hearing, you say, "Yes. Then again, all people should think of themselves as morally defective and pray to be made sinless." So which is it? Either you think there is a spiritual component linked to one's ability to hear, or there isn't. You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth without exposing the mental teeter-totter occupying your otherwise empty head.

Since you apparently feel it is your place to comment on this particular topic (though I can't imagine why given your abject ignorance on the matter) I will at least recommend you become properly informed before you take any more bigoted potshots from the top of your ivory tower. To that end, I suggest the following book:

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Deaf-Cu...0379642&sr=1-4

Maybe your local library will have a copy since I can't imagine you would condescend to actually spend money on a book written by "deafective" individuals.

(That was an unintentional misspelling of "defective", but it works so well in this context that I am compelled to leave it.)

[jpholding]

YT user pkiverson, on my example of how the law about rails on roofs in Deut corresponds to modern use of railings on balconies:

In the balcony example you analyze why the law might have been in place, and consider a modern equivalent, but are we obligated to follow the modern equivalent? Would someone who decides not put a railing on his balcony be committing a sin?

My reply:

Are you really that stupid? Today there are specific safety codes that require such measures. What the hell do YOU think, dumbass? You think if some builder leaves off a railing, no one will hold them responsible if someone falls and injures or kills themselves?

It's not hard to figure where he's coming from though. You check his profile, and he has an obsession with the subjects of gay marriage, gay adoption, gay pride, etc.



Also, a Screwball to YT itself for making it so that when you hit the Enter key, instead of getting a space, your comment posts.

[Kristian Joense]

I am not sure about Youtube but on Facebook and Skype you can use shift + enter for the expected functionality.

[Mountain Man]

I am not sure about Youtube but on Facebook and Skype you can use shift + enter for the expected functionality.

Except when it posts, it'll just ignore the carriage returns and glob everything together in a single paragraph, which is just as annoying.

[Benson Shays]

John Loftus plays college counselor to Christian college students. He is hereby nominated for a screwball.

[KingsGambit]

I am on my cell phone so can't copypaste the exact quotations right now, but micah719 will get a nomination for his repeated claims that the Bible pecifically bans dating despite his repeated inability to provide a verse and for his strong invective against those who claim otherwise. He seems to alternately cclaim it is either equivalent to fornication or that it will make sex inevitable.

[Manwë Súlimo]

Alvin Plantinga's AC broke down, ergo God doesn't not exist:

[jpholding]

Just checking...as of 2 hours ago, the clown still has no idea what illegitimate totality transfer is:

He does deny that bazaz means to plunder. He says it simply means to "take away." Is that what it means liar-boy? Can you show me one war time instance where it is translated that way? No, you can't, because one doesn't exist. Holding makes an unsubstantiated claim (like all you FUNDIE CHRISTIANS do) that it has a different meaning then what's defined for it--it only means to take away. However, he NEVER provides an example of this, he simply states it as fact. Where do liars go again?

[RumTumTugger]

Just checking...as of 2 hours ago, the clown still has no idea what illegitimate totality transfer is:

is it time for Shelia step in yet?