Insects and Oxygen

[pancreasman]

I watched a marvelous program on TV last night: 'How to grow a planet', on the evolution of plants and how they effected all life on earth. Absolutely brilliant!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01bywvr

I learnt I whole bunch of things I didn't know before. Something that really caught my attention was the correlation between maximum insect size and oxygen concentration in the air. Let me explain using the evolutionary model.

Plants were the first organisms to colonize the ancient earth. They covered almost the entire surface of the planet. Plants respire (as do we all) by 'burning' fuel, combining it with oxygen. Of course plants also photosynthesize, creating sugars for fuel by using carbon dioxide and sunlight and creating oxygen as a waste product. The amount of oxygen produced in this way exceeds the amount they use in respiration meaning there is a net surplus of oxygen added to the atmosphere. This early stage of land life then resulted in the concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere rising to much higher levels than it is today (up to 35% compared to the 21% it is today).

Insects too came early on to the land. Insects also need oxygen to respire. They 'breathe' by having air pass through tiny tubes called spiracles. Oxygen passes into their internal organs mostly by simple diffusion. Because of this one of the biggest single limitations on the size of insects is the concentration of oxygen in the air. In the fossilized remains of these ancient forests we find fossils of enormous insects.

http://insects.about.com/od/morphology/f/breathing.htm

insect-size-chart1 SMALL.jpg

As time went on and larger animals colonized the land, oxygen levels reduced.

This observation confirms an oxygen rich early atmosphere coincident with the earliest land plants and the existence of extinct giant insect species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meganeura

http://insects.about.com/od/evolutio...ere-So-Big.htm

http://qvcproject.blogspot.com.au/20...rtunately.html

I wonder how YEC's might explain this.

1. Did Eden have giant insects?

2. How did the oxygen levels in Eden compare with those today?

3. How did Adam and Eve avoid hyperoxia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity

[phank]

I've also seen some discussions about how the size of various fauna related to oxygen concentrations in the atmosphere. There is in fact a correlation between large size and oxygen concentration, but there seem to be exceptions as well.

But why clutter up this interesting stuff with YEC crap? After all, these large concentrations of oxygen occurred hundreds of millions of years ago, and over the last geological eyeblink (last milliion years or so) it hasn't changed a whole lot.

[Tiggy]

Insects degenerated to smaller size because of The Fall^tm




...or something like that.

- T

[phank]

Here's a historical chart of oxygen concentrations. Adam and Eve, unfortunately, aren't noted on this timeline.

[Cow Poke]

I was really hoping you were going to tell me how to get rid of mosquitoes. Or have SMALLER ones. Those mosquitoes around Port Arthur, Texas can carry you off and eat you at home!

[Tiggy]

3. How did Adam and Eve avoid hyperoxia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity

Well, there are some out there who claim Adam was 15' tall. I kid you not.

7332209708_349fca38f2_z.jpg

I guess he'd have no problem swatting a 6" long mosquito.

- T

[phank]

Maybe that's what happens if you keep growing for 800 years.

[Hamster]

Maybe Eden was at a higher altitude

[rogue06]

Maybe that's what happens if you keep growing for 800 years.

I thought you tended to shrink a little as you got old.

[Cow Poke]

I thought you tended to shrink a little as you got old.

Cause some of the height shifts to width.

[phank]

I thought you tended to shrink a little as you got old.

Clearly, things were very different in those days, when giants walked the earth and gods strolled alongside them, miracling as they went.

[pancreasman]

I note with disappointment but very little surprise that our resident YEC experts have not arrived to explain this neat stuff in terms of their theory.

[phank]

I note with disappointment but very little surprise that our resident YEC experts have not arrived to explain this neat stuff in terms of their theory.

How about this:
1) You weren't there, so how do you know?
2) Just because those processes are active today, doesn't mean they were active in Adam's day
3) Inappropriate measures are inconsistent with these results, so nothing can be trusted
4) God created the appearance of such a history, for sheer verisimilitude
5) You are ignorant and lack true understanding, so why should I bother with you? (applies to far more than the YECs here)

[pancreasman]

How about this:
1) You weren't there, so how do you know?
2) Just because those processes are active today, doesn't mean they were active in Adam's day
3) Inappropriate measures are inconsistent with these results, so nothing can be trusted
4) God created the appearance of such a history, for sheer verisimilitude
5) You are ignorant and lack true understanding, so why should I bother with you? (applies to far more than the YECs here)

You forgot to tell me I'm drunk.

[phank]

You forgot to tell me I'm drunk.

Dang, you're right. Forgot to play games with fonts too.