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Thread: Luke 1:43

  1. #41
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    ...by a latter day Nestorian.
    Based on what? Your mere disagreement? Christ being one person being both fully human and fully God is not being denied. Mary is the mother of the Christ. Not the mother of God.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  2. #42
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    As the man, no (Psalm 110:1), as the Son of God, yes (John 5:18-23).
    How Nestorian of you. I'm beginning to understand your angst over this.

    Source: Luke 2:8-11 NKJV

    8 Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

    © Copyright Original Source



    If "the Lord" is referring to the same thing in v. 9 (twice) and v. 11, then it is certainly fair to say that the Son of God was born of Mary in the Incarnation. If it's not referring to the same thing, well, you're in the same camp as the Jehovah's Witnesses, who alter the first two instances (but not the last) to "Jehovah."
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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  3. #43
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    How Nestorian of you. I'm beginning to understand your angst over this.

    Source: Luke 2:8-11 NKJV

    8 Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

    © Copyright Original Source



    If "the Lord" is referring to the same thing in v. 9 (twice) and v. 11, then it is certainly fair to say that the Son of God was born of Mary in the Incarnation. If it's not referring to the same thing, well, you're in the same camp as the Jehovah's Witnesses, who alter the first two instances (but not the last) to "Jehovah."
    No. Jesus being born a man is both Christ and Lord (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:36; Acts 20:21). That as the Christ He is also the LORD in being the Christ is not in dispute (Romans 10:13; Acts 10:43; Isaiah 43:11; Acts 4:12; John 12:41; Isaiah 6:5).
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  4. #44
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    No. Jesus being born a man is both Christ and Lord (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:36; Acts 20:21). That as the Christ He is also the LORD in being the Christ is not in dispute (Romans 10:13; Acts 10:43; Isaiah 43:11; Acts 4:12; John 12:41; Isaiah 6:5).
    and who is "the LORD?"

  5. #45
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    No. Jesus being born a man is both Christ and Lord (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:36; Acts 20:21).
    I don't think those verses say what you want them to say; they utterly fail to address your underlined bit, which is the very thing you're seeking to prove. Did the Word become flesh (Jn. 1:14)? Was the Son of God born of the seed of David (Rom. 1:1-4)?
    That as the Christ He is also the LORD in being the Christ is not in dispute (Romans 10:13; Acts 10:43; Isaiah 43:11; Acts 4:12; John 12:41; Isaiah 6:5).
    Yes, that is not in dispute.

    I have little desire to continue this conversation; we've made our positions clear, and further argument is unlikely to budge either of us.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  6. #46
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    and who is "the LORD?"
    I thought you knew? God by His Name. The self Existent one.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  7. #47
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I don't think those verses say what you want them to say; they utterly fail to address your underlined bit, which is the very thing you're seeking to prove.
    What do you think I was "seeking to prove?"

    Did the Word become flesh (Jn. 1:14)?
    Precisely. The Word was made flesh. What was born of Mary was flesh. The Word having been made fully human. (ref also John 1:3 regarding the Word.)
    John 1:3,
    All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.



    Was the Son of God born of the seed of David (Rom. 1:1-4)?
    It does not say that. It says Jesus Christ our Lord was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. And that Son of God was declared the Son by His resurrection (see Psalm 2:7).
    Romans 1:4,
    . . . And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: . . .

    The Son of God was the Son of God before He was born the man. He always was the Son of God (Proverbs 30:4).

    What was born of Mary was the man, not God. (Acts 17:28; 2 Chronicles 2:6; Jeremiah 23:24.)
    I have little desire to continue this conversation; we've made our positions clear, and further argument is unlikely to budge either of us.
    What ever you want to do. Truth still matters.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  8. #48
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    It does not say that. It says Jesus Christ our Lord was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.
    You are incorrect. The NKJV literally says "born of the seed of David after the flesh." The NET agrees that this is literally what the Greek says.
    Truth still matters.
    Indeed. Why, then, are you ignoring clear statements in scripture in order to twist less clear statements to support your contention? That is not honest biblical interpretation. It is a clear sign that your personal beliefs are driving your reading of the scriptures, and not vice versa.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  9. #49
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    John 7:42 42 ουχι η γραφη ειπεν οτι εκ του σπερματος δαυιδ και απο βηθλεεμ της κωμης οπου ην δαυιδ ο χριστος ερχεται

    it's an interesting statement.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  10. Amen 37818 amen'd this post.
  11. #50
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    I thought you knew? God by His Name. The self Existent one.
    So if Mary gave birth to the Christ the Lord, who is God, who did Mary give birth to?

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