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Thread: Luke 1:43

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    tWebber
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    Luke 1:43

    Luke 1:43Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

    43 How could this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

    What is the Greek word used for "Lord" and what does it mean?

    In addition, what Greek word is used for "Lord" in the following passage?

    John 20:28Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

    28 Thomas responded to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Thanks.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Good resource is

    http://www.studylight.org/desk/interlinear.cgi

    It is an interlinear bible. Shows you the greek words when you click on the english.

    Luke 1:43 Lord

    # 2962 κύριος
    kýrios
    from kuros (supremacy)


    he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
    the possessor and disposer of a thing
    the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
    in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
    is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master
    this title is given to: God, the Messiah

    KJV (748) - Lord, 667; Sir, 6; lord, 54; master, 11; misc, 4; sir, 6
    NAS (720) - Lord, 626; Lord of lords, 2; Lord's, 12; lord, 10; lords, 1; master, 38; master's, 3; masters, 8; masters', 1; owner, 6; owners, 1; sir, 11; sirs, 1
    HCS (717) - 'Master, 1; He, Sir, 1; Him, 1; LORD, 1; Lord, 411; Lord's, 19; Master, 10; Masters, 1; OF LORDS, 1; Sir, 11; Sirs, 1; The Lord, 13; The Lord's, 3; You, Lord, 3; a Master, 1; am, Lord, 1; as Lord, 2; as you would the Lord, 1; for the Lord, 4; from the Lord, 3; in the Lord's, 1; is Lord, 3; it for the honor of the Lord, 1; it is for the Lord, 1; it, lord, 1; lord, 2; lords, 1; many as the Lord, 1; master, 31; master's, 5; masters, 6; of lords, 1; of our Lord, 1; of the Lord, 44; of the Lord's, 1; owner, 5; owners, 3; take the Lord's, 1; the Lord, 109; the Lord's, 7; the owner, 1; then the Lord, 1; will, sir, 1


    Same word in John 20:28

  3. Amen 37818 amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Good resource is

    http://www.studylight.org/desk/interlinear.cgi

    It is an interlinear bible. Shows you the greek words when you click on the english.

    Luke 1:43 Lord

    # 2962 κύριος
    kýrios
    from kuros (supremacy)


    he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
    the possessor and disposer of a thing
    the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
    in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
    is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master
    this title is given to: God, the Messiah

    KJV (748) - Lord, 667; Sir, 6; lord, 54; master, 11; misc, 4; sir, 6
    NAS (720) - Lord, 626; Lord of lords, 2; Lord's, 12; lord, 10; lords, 1; master, 38; master's, 3; masters, 8; masters', 1; owner, 6; owners, 1; sir, 11; sirs, 1
    HCS (717) - 'Master, 1; He, Sir, 1; Him, 1; LORD, 1; Lord, 411; Lord's, 19; Master, 10; Masters, 1; OF LORDS, 1; Sir, 11; Sirs, 1; The Lord, 13; The Lord's, 3; You, Lord, 3; a Master, 1; am, Lord, 1; as Lord, 2; as you would the Lord, 1; for the Lord, 4; from the Lord, 3; in the Lord's, 1; is Lord, 3; it for the honor of the Lord, 1; it is for the Lord, 1; it, lord, 1; lord, 2; lords, 1; many as the Lord, 1; master, 31; master's, 5; masters, 6; of lords, 1; of our Lord, 1; of the Lord, 44; of the Lord's, 1; owner, 5; owners, 3; take the Lord's, 1; the Lord, 109; the Lord's, 7; the owner, 1; then the Lord, 1; will, sir, 1


    Same word in John 20:28
    OK, I am trying to decide if Lord in Luke 1:43 can be translated as God, not just a title of respect. Catholics say that Elizabeth is saying Mary is the mother of God, using Luke 1:43 to prove it.

    BTW: I'm not very good at this and that is why I need help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Luke 1:43Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

    43 How could this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

    What is the Greek word used for "Lord" and what does it mean?

    In addition, what Greek word is used for "Lord" in the following passage?

    John 20:28Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

    28 Thomas responded to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Thanks.
    The Greek word is the same Greek word κυριος kurios used both of God and of men.

    It is my understand it is being used referring to Christ in His incarnation, in Him being a man, in a distinction from Him being God. Christ, of course, being both the man and God.
    Psalm 110:1,
    The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    1 Corinthians 8:6,
    . . . But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him. . . .

    1 Timothy 2:5,
    . . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; . . .
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    The Greek word is the same Greek word κυριος kurios used both of God and of men.

    It is my understand it is being used referring to Christ in His incarnation, in Him being a man, in a distinction from Him being God. Christ, of course, being both the man and God.
    Psalm 110:1,
    The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    1 Corinthians 8:6,
    . . . But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him. . . .

    1 Timothy 2:5,
    . . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; . . .
    Do you think Luke 1:43 supports the Catholic position that this verse says Mary is the mother of God?

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Do you think Luke 1:43 supports the Catholic position that this verse says Mary is the mother of God?
    They mean that:

    1. Jesus is the incarnation of God
    2. Mary is Jesus' mother
    so therefore, she is technically the mother of (the incarnation) of God the Son.

    It doesn't mean she is the creator of God or anything like that.

    so in Luke 1:43, the word "Lord" refers to Jesus, who is God the Son, so indirectly it is referring to God. Just like when you pray "My Lord, blah blah blah" when you are saying "Lord" you are referring to God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    They mean that:

    1. Jesus is the incarnation of God
    2. Mary is Jesus' mother
    so therefore, she is technically the mother of (the incarnation) of God the Son.

    It doesn't mean she is the creator of God or anything like that.

    so in Luke 1:43, the word "Lord" refers to Jesus, who is God the Son, so indirectly it is referring to God. Just like when you pray "My Lord, blah blah blah" when you are saying "Lord" you are referring to God.
    It is important to know what Elizabeth meant by "Lord" at that time.

    Even though we know now that Jesus is God, they didn't know it then. They were not expecting the Messiah to be God.

    So, if John 20:28 uses the same word for "Lord" as Luke 1:43, Thomas must have used a different word for "God." Theos?

    If so, then in order for Luke 1:43 to mean God, (mother of God) the same word would have been used -- Theos.

    Otherwise, Thomas is saying "My God and my God."

    John Reece used to take pity on me for some of my questions!

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    It is important to know what Elizabeth meant by "Lord" at that time.

    Even though we know now that Jesus is God, they didn't know it then. They were not expecting the Messiah to be God.
    The point is contestable.

    So, if John 20:28 uses the same word for "Lord" as Luke 1:43, Thomas must have used a different word for "God." Theos?
    o kurios mou kai o theos mou (my lord and my God) - your surmise is correct.

    If so, then in order for Luke 1:43 to mean God, (mother of God) the same word would have been used -- Theos.
    Kurios translates the Hebrew "YHVH" (Jehovah) among other words.

    Otherwise, Thomas is saying "My God and my God."
    No. Kurios in that context does not mean God.

    John Reece used to take pity on me for some of my questions!
    Identity of Christ is important. Identity of Mary, not so much. Hebrews chapter 9 and Philippians 2: 1 - 11 will explain well enough the identity of Christ. (though note: the translations of Ephesians 2:6 are sub-optimal)

    "kurios" acknowledges the person spoken of as a superior. An adult acknowledging an as yet unborn child as her superior doesn't incontestably show that the unborn child is God, but it does say that there is something more than usually significant about that child.

    Sparko's reply in post#6 is more than adequate.
    Last edited by tabibito; 07-11-2017 at 03:44 PM.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    well if "Lord" in verse 43 wasn't indirectly referring to God, then who was "Lord" referring to in verse 45?

    43 Why should this happen to me, to have the mother of my Lord visit me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb jumped for joy. 45 How blessed is this woman who believed that what the Lord told her would be fulfilled!”

  11. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    There you go. One verse by itself would not be enough to establish the matter, but in conjunction with others, it becomes cut and dried.

    Just as John 1:1 standing alone won't establish that Jesus was God, nor even the Word come to that. It takes more than the one verse to show that he was incontestably both.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

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