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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

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Luke 1:43

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    That didn't stop Thomas from calling Jesus "God" did it? The "trinity" is the explanation for what the Gospels reveal.

    And Elizabeth did know that her son would be the one making way for the Messiah. And Isaiah is pretty clear that the Messiah will be God.

    Isaiah 40:3 A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God. … 9 You who bring good tidings to Zion, go up on a high mountain. You who bring good tidings to Jerusalem, lift up your voice with a shout, lift it up, do not be afraid; say to the towns of Judah, "Here is your God!" 10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power, and his arm rules for him. See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.

    and don't forget what the angel told Mary:

    *Matthew 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." 22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" --which means, "God with us."
    What I am trying to point out that it took a long time for Jesus' disciples and followers to believe He was divine.

    Thomas believed after Jesus' resurrection from the dead.

    Heck, Jesus' disciples didn't even believe He would die and rise from the dead.

    And John the Baptist wondered if Jesus really was the Messiah.
    Last edited by Christian3; 07-12-2017, 02:39 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      Did you even read my first post in the thread? Just wondering.
      Of course.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        What is wrong with Jesus' mother being called "Christotokos," the Christ-bearer? And that she was.
        What is wrong with her being called "Theotokos"? If Jesus is God, she was.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          What is wrong with her being called "Theotokos"? If Jesus is God, she was.
          Would it be correct to say Jesus' mother is the mother of YHWH?
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            Would it be correct to say Jesus' mother is the mother of YHWH?
            No.
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              No.
              debating yourself now?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                debating yourself now?
                No. The question I asked was not answered I gave my answer. Would you like an explanation for my answer of "No?"
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  No. The question I asked was not answered I gave my answer. Would you like an explanation for my answer of "No?"
                  no.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    Would it be correct to say Jesus' mother is the mother of YHWH?
                    Is Jesus YHWH?
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Is Jesus YHWH?
                      As the man, no (Psalm 110:1), as the Son of God, yes (John 5:18-23).
                      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        ...by a latter day Nestorian.
                        Based on what? Your mere disagreement? Christ being one person being both fully human and fully God is not being denied. Mary is the mother of the Christ. Not the mother of God.
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          As the man, no (Psalm 110:1), as the Son of God, yes (John 5:18-23).
                          How Nestorian of you. I'm beginning to understand your angst over this.

                          Source: Luke 2:8-11 NKJV

                          8 Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          If "the Lord" is referring to the same thing in v. 9 (twice) and v. 11, then it is certainly fair to say that the Son of God was born of Mary in the Incarnation. If it's not referring to the same thing, well, you're in the same camp as the Jehovah's Witnesses, who alter the first two instances (but not the last) to "Jehovah."
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            How Nestorian of you. I'm beginning to understand your angst over this.

                            Source: Luke 2:8-11 NKJV

                            8 Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

                            © Copyright Original Source



                            If "the Lord" is referring to the same thing in v. 9 (twice) and v. 11, then it is certainly fair to say that the Son of God was born of Mary in the Incarnation. If it's not referring to the same thing, well, you're in the same camp as the Jehovah's Witnesses, who alter the first two instances (but not the last) to "Jehovah."
                            No. Jesus being born a man is both Christ and Lord (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:36; Acts 20:21). That as the Christ He is also the LORD in being the Christ is not in dispute (Romans 10:13; Acts 10:43; Isaiah 43:11; Acts 4:12; John 12:41; Isaiah 6:5).
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              No. Jesus being born a man is both Christ and Lord (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:36; Acts 20:21). That as the Christ He is also the LORD in being the Christ is not in dispute (Romans 10:13; Acts 10:43; Isaiah 43:11; Acts 4:12; John 12:41; Isaiah 6:5).
                              and who is "the LORD?"

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                No. Jesus being born a man is both Christ and Lord (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:36; Acts 20:21).
                                I don't think those verses say what you want them to say; they utterly fail to address your underlined bit, which is the very thing you're seeking to prove. Did the Word become flesh (Jn. 1:14)? Was the Son of God born of the seed of David (Rom. 1:1-4)?
                                That as the Christ He is also the LORD in being the Christ is not in dispute (Romans 10:13; Acts 10:43; Isaiah 43:11; Acts 4:12; John 12:41; Isaiah 6:5).
                                Yes, that is not in dispute.

                                I have little desire to continue this conversation; we've made our positions clear, and further argument is unlikely to budge either of us.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                                sigpic
                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                                Comment

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