Question for those who are non-LDS only.

[Chrawnus]

Other Christians have told me that God is indigenous to another dimension. They say it's impossible that He is forced to exist, er "subsist" in His own creation, aka our universe.

They're either wrong, or you misunderstood them. God does not exist in any particular dimension, He exists in all dimensions, since He created all dimensions. Which means He exists both in our universe/dimension, and all other possible universes/dimensions.

"Outside our time-space continuum" is the term several of them have used. I'd say that qualifies as somewhere else.

Only if you think of God as being localised. God isn't localised however, but omnipresent, which means that God isn't really "somewhere else", His presence is instead "everywhere (without exception) at once".

Those other Evangelicals claimed that if God had no where else to exist except within the universe He created several thousand or billion years ago, then it would Him a contingent being or something. Which they say is impossible.

Again, either you misunderstood them, or they simply don't know what they're talking about. God doesn't need "somewhere" (i.e some kind of space) to exist, but he exists in every space that He creates. If the totality of all space, in every possible universe (if there are more than one) suddenly disappeared, it would pose no problems for God, since He has never been dependent on space to exist.

That much is indeed standard Trinitarianism.

And standard Theism.

My question was about whether YOUR beliefs could be sensationalized into a claim that YOUR god is an alien. And I think the answer is "yes."

Orthodox (small "o") Christian beliefs can only be sensationalized into a claim that our God is an alien if the accuser inconceivably moronic and has no idea what the nature of God is, and the definition of an alien.

[Cerebrum123]

Orthodox (small "o") Christian beliefs can only be sensationalized into a claim that our God is an alien if the accuser inconceivably moronic and has no idea what the nature of God is, and the definition of an alien.

Just like phank when he said that Mary was "artificially inseminated by an alien".

[Cow Poke]

Other Christians have told me...

FORGET "other Christians", Jeff... We will tell you all you need to know.

[themuzicman]

Other Christians have told me that God is indigenous to another dimension. They say it's impossible that He is forced to exist, er "subsist" in His own creation, aka our universe.

I think you're misinterpreting something, here. God isn't subject to creation's limits, that's true. But the fact that He is creator of this universe and has participated in it from the beginning means he isn't an alien in any sense of the word.

"Outside our time-space continuum" is the term several of them have used. I'd say that qualifies as somewhere else.

OK, but that doesn't mean that God isn't inside our time-space continuum, too. Again, just because God is transcendent doesn't mean he isn't immanent, too.

Those other Evangelicals claimed that if God had no where else to exist except within the universe He created several thousand or billion years ago, then it would Him a contingent being or something. Which they say is impossible.

Which is fine. God is in both places.

That much is indeed standard Trinitarianism.

Has nothing to do with the trinity.

That's all they were there for, eh? Dang women, sitting on the sofa watching soap operas...

SO, that's accurate, and you don't want to talk about it. Got it.

My question was about whether YOUR beliefs could be sensationalized into a claim that YOUR god is an alien. And I think the answer is "yes."

And you'd be wrong for the reasons stated, which haven't yet been addressed.

[nrajeff]

And you'd be wrong for the reasons stated, which haven't yet been addressed.

You're in denial if you think your beliefs can't be EASILY re-stated in a sensationalistic way that makes them look crazy, silly, stupid, blasphemous...etc.

Just check out some of the atheist sites and see what they say about your wacky beliefs. Or you could study what the ancient anti-Christians said about the beliefs of the Early Christians. Nothing new under the sun, when it comes to how one's enemies use rhetoric to incite antipathy toward people they fear/misunderstand/hate/envy.

[themuzicman]

You're in denial if you think your beliefs can't be EASILY re-stated in a sensationalistic way that makes them look crazy, silly, stupid, blasphemous...etc.

Of course. The question isn't whether they can be re-stated,but rather whether they're valid.

Just check out some of the atheist sites and see what they say about your wacky beliefs. Or you could study what the ancient anti-Christians said about the beliefs of the Early Christians. Nothing new under the sun, when it comes to how one's enemies use rhetoric to incite antipathy toward people they fear/misunderstand/hate/envy.

Of course, if what is stated is accurate, then there is reason for serious consideration.

[nrajeff]

Millet is teaching a class of Mormon missionaries how to answer questions,....

I re-read the above and decided I should note that I was in a class of missionaries, and nobody taught me that I should lie when answering questions. Does anyone here actually know any of these missionaries who were in this class?

[Cow Poke]

I re-read the above and decided I should note that I was in a class of missionaries, and nobody taught me that I should lie when answering questions.

<Sarcasm>

Learned it all by yourself, did ya?

This is a fair warning to those sarcastically impaired the preceding text was written in jest.

Does anyone here actually know any of these missionaries who were in this class?

Would that change the fact that he was teaching the goofy "In the Spring of 1820..." answer INSTEAD of answering the actual question? I mean, seriously... what's your point?

[nrajeff]

<Sarcasm>

Learned it all by yourself, did ya?

This is a fair warning to those sarcastically impaired the preceding text was written in jest.

I read a lot.....in certain theological discussion forums....

Would that change the fact that he was teaching the goofy "In the Spring of 1820..." answer INSTEAD of answering the actual question? I mean, seriously... what's your point?

My point is: How isolated an incident is/.was this? Don't you care about finding out?

[Cow Poke]

My point is: How isolated an incident is/.was this? Don't you care about finding out?

Fair question!
I'll present my case (thrown together off the top of my head) and you present your case. Just some thoughts....

The venue -- I would think this is an official Mormon venue, like a classroom at BYU. Do you know differently?

The audience -- I have no reason to doubt the numerous references that accompany this video in various formats that always seem to indicate he is speaking to Mormon Missionaries. Given his position, it's not beyond reason to think that this is a "standard talk" to Missionaries about to depart on missions.

The speaker -- This is not just "joe schmoe", but it is (from Wiki)...

Dr. Robert L. Millet (born in the Spring of 1820* in Baton Rouge, Louisiana) is a professor of ancient scripture and emeritus Dean of Religious Education at Brigham Young University (BYU) in Provo, Utah. Millet is a Latter-day Saint author and speaker with more than 60 published works on virtually all aspects of Mormonism. Millet co-founded the evangelical-Mormon dialogue.

The speech -- the powerpoint presentation would seem to indicate that this was not just an ad hoc speech, but something he prepared (or had prepared for him) and presents more than a time or two.
In his comments, he speaks as though this is an ongoing thing ... "I group this under 'answer the right question'" and "this will lead to the next principle in a second".

I think the overall "feel" is that this is NOT an isolated incident.

*I may have fudged that part.

[RBerman]

I re-read the above and decided I should note that I was in a class of missionaries, and nobody taught me that I should lie when answering questions. Does anyone here actually know any of these missionaries who were in this class?

I would be interested in hearing how you were taught to discuss the origins of God.

[themuzicman]

So, nrajeff, where does the Mormon god come from?

[nrajeff]

I would be interested in hearing how you were taught to discuss the origins of God.

I was taught to answer "I don't know" and/or "Our official doctrine is silent about that" if someone asks for specifics. LDS official doctrine mentions some general facts--some of which are supported by the Bible. Any speculations or extrapolations are just that and the church rightly and understandably does not endorse them.

[nrajeff]

So, nrajeff, where does the Mormon god come from?

Well, since that is a vague question, one answer could be "From heaven, as the Bible and other LDS scriptures attest."

("You shall see the Son of Man descending from Heaven...." and it says that Jesus went up there to be at His Father's side, so His Father obviously would come from there as well, on those rare occasions when He visits our planet)

Or, you could be asking "What are the specific, ultimate origins of Jesus' Father?" in which case my answer would be "As far as I know, He hasn't made it known to the general public, of which I am a member." The general info we have is that Jesus is very much like His Father. Jesus is a resurrected being, so His Father is one, too. That means that Jesus' Father underwent mortality, like Jesus did--it's kind of a prerequisite to ending up resurrected. And it's a doctrine that there never was a time when there was no deity." More than that in the way of details would be speculation. IMO

[themuzicman]

Well, since that is a vague question, one answer could be "From heaven, as the Bible and other LDS scriptures attest."

("You shall see the Son of Man descending from Heaven...." and it says that Jesus went up there to be at His Father's side, so His Father obviously would come from there as well, on those rare occasions when He visits our planet)

So, He's always been in heaven? He was never a creature himself?