Is Historian and Christian David Barton helpful or hurtful?

[OtherCheek]

I was upset to learn that David Barton has been fabricating quotes for the sake of Christianity, (either that or for the sake of popularity and money.) I was hoping he could be trusted as a Christian Minister.

One of the most damning fact-checks concerns a letter from John Adams to Benjamin Rush from 1809. Barton cites a long section of the letter in which Adams says, in part, “There is no authority, civil or religious –there can be no legitimate government - but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it – all without it is rebellion and perdition, or, in more orthodox words, damnation.” But Barton does not include the sentence which immediately follows, which is “Although this is all Artifice and Cunning in the secret original in the heart, yet they all believe it so sincerely that they would lay down their Lives under the Ax or the fiery Fagot for it. Alas the poor weak ignorant Dupe human Nature.” In other words, Adams was mocking the very point that Barton claims he was making.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...t-single-thing

This is just one of many.

[KingsGambit]

I've always taken everything Wall Builders has said with a grain of salt. Looking at their website, it's almost as if you could get the impression that Christianity rises and falls on whether the "Founding Fathers" were all Christians. No, they weren't, and it doesn't matter.

[OtherCheek]

I've always taken everything Wall Builders has said with a grain of salt. Looking at their website, it's almost as if you could get the impression that Christianity rises and falls on whether the "Founding Fathers" were all Christians. No, they weren't, and it doesn't matter.

But I'm asking about David Barton. Could this be a case of "fabrication for Jesus?" Or is he just doing this for money without regard to his Christian Faith?

[KingsGambit]

But I'm asking about David Barton. Could this be a case of "fabrication for Jesus?" Or is he just doing this for money without regard to his Christian Faith?

If he is intentionally misrepresenting these quotes, then yes, he is acting very immorally.

[Hamster]

First Barton lies about Adams’ faith, positing that he was a 'Trinitarian Unitarian.'

What..... what does that even mean?

[OtherCheek]

If he is intentionally misrepresenting these quotes, then yes, he is acting very immorally.

I would agree. It is damaging to himself and others who trust him, and then are let down. I was working on a project regarding the founding of America, and I was very disappointed to learn that one of my sources was fabricating stuff.

[Cow Poke]

I was upset to learn that David Barton has been fabricating quotes for the sake of Christianity, (either that or for the sake of popularity and money.) I was hoping he could be trusted as a Christian Minister.

One of the most damning fact-checks concerns a letter from John Adams to Benjamin Rush from 1809. Barton cites a long section of the letter in which Adams says, in part, “There is no authority, civil or religious –there can be no legitimate government - but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it – all without it is rebellion and perdition, or, in more orthodox words, damnation.” But Barton does not include the sentence which immediately follows, which is “Although this is all Artifice and Cunning in the secret original in the heart, yet they all believe it so sincerely that they would lay down their Lives under the Ax or the fiery Fagot for it. Alas the poor weak ignorant Dupe human Nature.” In other words, Adams was mocking the very point that Barton claims he was making.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...t-single-thing

This is just one of many.

If it's true he actually fabricated this stuff, it's really disappointing to me on a personal level. When I was arrested for home schooling back in the 80's, David came to visit me and provided me with resources. He even signed my Bible. I really liked him personally, and will need to check into this.

[nrajeff]

Arrested for the crime of home schooling? You...you heretic! Or apostate. Or both. "Herepostate."

[OtherCheek]

If it's true he actually fabricated this stuff, it's really disappointing to me on a personal level. When I was arrested for home schooling back in the 80's, David came to visit me and provided me with resources. He even signed my Bible. I really liked him personally, and will need to check into this.

Tell me about it. I was working on a book about the religious influence in America's Founding. I thought I was done. Now I have to go through it again to determine what quotes were fabricated. I learned a long time ago never to trust "sensational" stuff before really checking into it. But I got derped. (or duped).

[Cow Poke]

Tell me about it. I was working on a book about the Christian roots of America's Founding. I thought I was done. Now I have to go through it again.

He had a GREAT film (was actually a REEL that you play on a movie projector) that I used to play for my Churches about the Founding Fathers. I had no reason NOT to doubt him -- he came across as quite honest and sincere, and he REALLY seemed to be in command of his facts -- able to talk for a LONG time without notes on dates and places and this and that. This is sad.

Apparently, Glen Beck sang his praises, and relied on a lot of his information.

[OtherCheek]

He had a GREAT film (was actually a REEL that you play on a movie projector) that I used to play for my Churches about the Founding Fathers. I had no reason NOT to doubt him -- he came across as quite honest and sincere, and he REALLY seemed to be in command of his facts -- able to talk for a LONG time without notes on dates and places and this and that. This is sad.

Apparently, Glen Beck sang his praises, and relied on a lot of his information.

Yep. Glenn Beck, like many of us, are thirsty for sensational stuff to derp. the Atheists. Being over-zealous can get you in trouble.

[Cow Poke]

Yep. Glenn Beck, like many of us, are thirsty for sensational stuff to derp. the Atheists. Being over-zealous can get you in trouble.

Somehow, it's all Glen Beck's fault! Dang MORMONS!

[Bill the Cat]

Arrested for the crime of home schooling? You...you heretic! Or apostate. Or both. "Herepostate."

I think that's where my daughters went shopping this past weekend...

[Sparko]

I think you have to take the criticism of Barton with a grain of salt too. There are other motives at play. Check out all claims from both sides.

Barton's reply to the criticism:

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...s.asp?id=89988

[OtherCheek]

I think you have to take the criticism of Barton with a grain of salt too. There are other motives at play. Check out all claims from both sides.

Barton's reply to the criticism:

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...s.asp?id=89988

I know both sides hope to advance their argument. I have read enough quotes from the founders to be satisfied that the VAST majority of them were men of faith. Whether or not they identified themselves a denominational-ists and regular church goers is not important IMO. It certainly seems as though David Barton has engaged in some quote tampering though, and that is disappointing to me. I would not be disappointed to see such among atheists and anti-Christians, but one who portrays himself as a "historian" who is also a Minister doing this is more damaging than helpful in the end. IMO.

I believe Adams was merely making the case the the "clergy" should not be the ones in charge of the administration of government. But that it should be a secular government. And that the orthodox clergy of Europe did not do well in their government positions--often using the Holy Ghost as the reason for their own unjust decisions upon the people. But I can't find the actual TEXT of the letter without having to decipher the handwriting myself.