Why are you LDS / Mormon?

[Cow Poke]

Just like is the case with many controversial or significant historic events, there is more than one account of what happened or how/when/why it happened.

To the EXTENT that there's differing / conflicting accounts of the alleged "first vision"? No, Jeff.. I don't think so.

That should be no surprise. E.g., the "real" story of the creation of the first flag of the USA. Or the events that led to the Emancipation Proclamation. Or the founding of Christianity in the Holy Land. Sometimes, the decision to choose one version over another depends on the prejudices of the person making the decision.

Or MAYBE the first vision never really happened! This is one of (if not THE) most important events in your Church's history, having to do SUPPOSEDLY with the "restoration" of Christianity, and Smith and his contemporaries couldn't agree on what actually HAPPENED? Wow. And you liken that to the "real" story of the first flag?

[nrajeff]

The very existence of such a screwy belief system to me is the biggest thing that could ever cause me to doubt Christianity.

And, similarly, the very existence of "screwy" Trinitarianism or "screwy" arbitrary Predestinationist Calvinism or "screwy" Transubtantiationism could be, to an LDS person, the biggest thing that could ever cause them to doubt the very existence of GOD.

And maybe the very existence of "screwy" Trinitarianism or "screwy" arbitrary Predestinationist Calvinism or "screwy" Transubtantiationism could be, to an atheist, the biggest thing that could ever cause them to start believing that God exists.

I mean seriously, there are a lot of really smart Mormons.

Seriously, there are a lot of really smart Anglicans and Catholics and atheists and Hindus and Muslims and Shintoists.

And the belief system is just so ludicrous.

What I find ludicrous is your apparent belief that there's nothing about YOUR beliefs that other people would find just as ludicrous. Someone once said "Before you embark on a journey to brand others' beliefs ludicrous, first did two graves."

If something so silly could be so big, with so many smart people, it makes me think that all religion could be a crock.

Isn't that what a Lutheran might have said about Catholicism, back in the good old days?
Or, more aptly, isn't that what an LDS person might say about Evangelicalism--assuming the LDS person had a similarly smug or simplistically absolutist attitude?

Obviously I don't go down that road, but to me it is the best argument against belief.

I don't think it's the best one, but that is just my opinion.

Forget all the crap that atheists say.

But some of the crap that atheists say uses reasoning similar to the crap that you're saying. So maybe we shouldn't forget ALL their crap.

The biggest argument against theism, for me, is the existence of the LDS and similar groups. LDS just to me is the biggest one since it is a knock off of Christianity. I am sure for Muslims or other religions they have their own examples.

And you are obviously entitled to hold that opinion, but it would be fun to have a dedicated debate sometime over your hypothesis.

[Cow Poke]

And you are obviously entitled to hold that opinion, but it would be fun to have a dedicated debate sometime over your hypothesis.

I would pay to watch!

[Sparko]

uh oh. Jeff didn't just mess with Dizzle did he?

[nrajeff]

uh oh. Jeff didn't just mess with Dizzle did he?

If someone brings a knife and wants to pick a fight, I am willing to bring my gun and try to finish it. : )

[Sparko]

If someone brings a knife and wants to pick a fight, I am willing to bring my gun and try to finish it. : )

bye Jeff.

[Bill the Cat]

Just like is the case with many controversial or significant historic events, there is more than one account of what happened or how/when/why it happened. That should be no surprise. E.g., the "real" story of the creation of the first flag of the USA. Or the events that led to the Emancipation Proclamation. Or the founding of Christianity in the Holy Land. Sometimes, the decision to choose one version over another depends on the prejudices of the person making the decision.

So, does that mean that you give plausibility to them all?

[Dee Dee Warren]

*snip*

Nothing worth responding to.

Oh, and even if I had time, I would never in a million years debate you. Why? You act like a volatile land mine, and I have no patience for such. I prefer to debate people that are much more stable and haven't flounced away from the forum only to return. There must be a name for that syndrome.

Oh there is. Drama Queen.

But you have good taste in avatars, I give you that. (referring to your former Bauer avatar)

[Dee Dee Warren]

If someone brings a knife and wants to pick a fight, I am willing to bring my gun and try to finish it. : )

I think the fact that you are so threatened by my opinion that you use such violent imagery speaks volumes. Go enjoy your polytheism. May Kolob shine forever! <snicker>

[Dee Dee Warren]

So, does that mean that you give plausibility to them all?

Which one is the real one. It didn't happen all that long ago. If they can't even get that story straight....

[Sparko]

ow.

[Cow Poke]

Which one is the real one. It didn't happen all that long ago. If they can't even get that story straight....

For such an important event supposedly happening in the Spring of 1820, it's odd that nothing is written of it in Church publications until much later. Smith wrote about it in 1838, but that material was not published until the 1840's. For the first 50 years of the Church's existence, I don't think members were even aware there WAS a "first vision".

I would be curious to know what the Mormons believe is the first published account of the alleged first vision.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Jeff can get all a-bristle over my opinion again, but I am just in shocked amazement that people take that shyster seriously at all.

Lucy Harris. Smart, smart, smart.

[Sparko]

Smith should have asked God for a Polaroid of the moment.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Jeff chose to take offense at everything, but seriously, there are super smart Mormons. The gullibility of people I love and respect really gives me pause.