For LDS - can you become Gods?

[nrajeff]

Again, not wishing to be negative, but my experience with LDS people is just as you have stated. They tend to take words which have a clear meaning in orthodoxy but reframe them to mean something quite different.

Then to the extent that those individuals do that without good reason, they are doing something fallacious, IMO, like Christians of any denomination who re-define without warrant would be doing.

[nrajeff]

Jeff, would you say that it is possible that there is a greater being that exists than God?

Good question. Answer: No, there cannot be anyone greater than an exalted deity, by definition. No matter how many beings there are with that status, none of them is or can be "greater" than another. Just like how in the old days of public education, you couldn't get a grade higher than an "A" because "A" was, by definition, the highest a student could get.

[nrajeff]

Answer is Yes but only because God has the ability and desire to grant such a blessing to his children. We can't get their on our own. Only a divine being can raise a non-divine being to that level.

Great answer because it emphasizes the LDS belief that God is sufficiently powerful to exalt His children to the point of being like Him, and He loves them enough that He desires to do so to all who show that they really want to "grow up to be like Father." Such a desire on the part of His children actually honors God. What good father isn't gratified to learn that his child wants to become like him?

[Cow Poke]

Good question. Answer: No, there cannot be anyone greater than an exalted deity, by definition. No matter how many beings there are with that status, none of them is or can be "greater" than another. Just like how in the old days of public education, you couldn't get a grade higher than an "A" because "A" was, by definition, the highest a student could get.

But if you "learn" to be a God, wouldn't it make sense that some "God"s were further along than others?

In your scenario, a first grader with straight "A"s would STILL be considered inferior, education wise, to a College Freshman with straight "A"s.

When you "become a God"... is it "poof, there is is", or is it a gradual process?

[Sparko]

Answer is Yes but only because God has the ability and desire to grant such a blessing to his children. We can't get their on our own. Only a divine being can raise a non-divine being to that level.

so how did the first god become divine?

[Kabane52]

Good question. Answer: No, there cannot be anyone greater than an exalted deity, by definition. No matter how many beings there are with that status, none of them is or can be "greater" than another. Just like how in the old days of public education, you couldn't get a grade higher than an "A" because "A" was, by definition, the highest a student could get.

So do you believe that there are other beings that are equal with God?

As you can probably see from my signature, I believe in theosis and divinization. But theosis rests on the idea that what God is by nature, we become by grace. We partake of the Divine Glory so that we are united to God without losing our personhood, but that doesn't make us a god in essence. Through the Incarnation, Death, and Resurrection of Christ, we become "partakers of the divine nature" and participate in His divinity. This all rests on the essence/energies distinction. We become gods in energies, but the Holy Trinity is the only one who is God in essence.

[nrajeff]

But if you "learn" to be a God, wouldn't it make sense that some "God"s were further along than others?

In your scenario, a first grader with straight "A"s would STILL be considered inferior, education wise, to a College Freshman with straight "A"s.

When you "become a God"... is it "poof, there is is", or is it a gradual process?

When using linear, finite thinking, you seem to have a good point. But from the perspective of beings like gods, who grasp the concept of infinite lifespans and virtually unlimited potential, "further along than the other guy" does not exist. If deities are 100% benevolent, loving beings, they don't see existence as a competition with other beings to amass more posessions or power, since it's not a zero-sum deal where the first ones to the finish line get all the goodies and for those who finish last, there's nothing left to give them. In God's way of thinking, all who hang in there and finish the race are winners of the prize--salvation or eternal life or whatever--and those who finish in 22,000 A.D. get the same wage as those who finish in 1 million A.D.

When you have all of eternity to reach your potential (because you qualified for that gift early on in your existence by your willingness to follow Christ up to Judgment Day), ideas such as "further along" cease to have any meaning. It's not a race against others. It's just you against your own character flaws. The sooner you purge them and become refined with God's help, the sooner you can start to realize your potential as one of God's children. Ultimately, the only thing hindering your perfection is you, and what other people are choosing to do with their potential is their own concern.

[Cow Poke]

When using linear, finite thinking, you seem to have a good point.

Well, YEAH!

But from the perspective of beings like gods, who grasp the concept of infinite lifespans and virtually unlimited potential, "further along than the other guy" does not exist.

Sure it does. You don't go from a mortal human to a God overnight, do you?

If deities are 100% benevolent, loving beings,

Don't they have to "learn" that?

they don't see existence as a competition with other beings to amass more posessions or power, since it's not a zero-sum deal where the first ones to the finish line get all the goodies and for those who finish last, there's nothing left to give them. In God's way of thinking, all who hang in there and finish the race are winners of the prize--salvation or eternal life or whatever--and those who finish in 22,000 A.D. get the same wage as those who finish in 1 million A.D.

Well, ASSUMING, of course, that God was only joshing when He declared Himself to be unique.

When you have all of eternity to reach your potential (because you qualified for that gift early on in your existence by your willingness to follow Christ up to Judgment Day), ideas such as "further along" cease to have any meaning. It's not a race against others.

Nobody said anything about a race, Jeff.

It's just you against your own character flaws.

What character flaws does God have?

The sooner you purge them and become refined with God's help, the sooner you can start to realize your potential as one of God's children. Ultimately, the only thing hindering your perfection is you, and what other people are choosing to do with their potential is their own concern.

So, it IS a process, and there ARE others, logically, who would be more "developed" or "learned". You're talking in circles, Jeff.

[Sparko]

How can they have infinite lifespans if the universe is only 15 billion years old? Remember, that according to the LDS God didn't create the universe and the "intelligences" can not become Gods unless they have a body and grow up on a planet. So the oldest God can only be a few billion years old

[Bill the Cat]

Good question. Answer: No, there cannot be anyone greater than an exalted deity, by definition. No matter how many beings there are with that status, none of them is or can be "greater" than another. Just like how in the old days of public education, you couldn't get a grade higher than an "A" because "A" was, by definition, the highest a student could get.

So. one day, an exalted Mormon (or multiple ones) will be equal to the Father?

[onefour1]

my reply to this question is: Yes I do.

[Catholicity]

my reply to this question is: Yes I do.

thanks for your honesty and straightforward answer

[nrajeff]

So. one day, an exalted Mormon (or multiple ones) will be equal to the Father?

Jesus didn't think it robbery to be equal to Him. Jesus said "Come, follow me." Q.E.D. :)

[nrajeff]

thanks for your honesty and straightforward answer

Hey, what about my answer? Chopped liver it was?

[nrajeff]

How can they have infinite lifespans if the universe is only 15 billion years old?

How can a ray have a finite starting point but go forward for an infinite distance?