Travel to interstellar planets ...

[DuraGizer]

If sublight or even FTL interstellar travel were to somehow come into existence within Jorge's lifetime, I wonder if he would officially recant his original views or choose instead to pretend that he never held them in the first place.

[phank]

Well, Voyager 1 has been underway for nearly 35 years, has traveled about 120 AU, and is in the process now of exiting the far side of the heliosphere and entering truly interstellar space. It is still in communication with Earth. So if we're talking about interstellar travel, it's happening right now, in all our lifetimes. Voyager 2 will do the same within most of our lifetimes.

Neither craft is likely to reach any other star system within our lifetimes, unless we invent stasis or immortality, but interstellar TRAVEL is happening as we watch.

[Jorge]

If sublight or even FTL interstellar travel were to somehow come into existence within Jorge's lifetime, I wonder if he would officially recant his original views or choose instead to pretend that he never held them in the first place.

***********************************************

"Sublight" is any speed less than light speed ... we have that right now.

What you mean is a speed that is a significant fraction of light speed, say,
anything at or above 0.01c where c = light speed.

Well, what don't you tell me what happens when something moving that fast runs into something else?
I've already (previous post) provided an example - why don't you try to refute it? Or is that too hard for you?

Jorge

[wattsr1]

... - why don't you try to refute it? Or is that too hard for you?

Jorge

That massive explosion you heard, like a Barringer meteorite hitting the earth, was my irony meter blowing up.

[Jorge]

That massive explosion you heard, like a Barringer meteorite hitting the earth, was my irony meter blowing up.

**********************************
I have already responded to that, you Dodo Bird!

The fact that you either cannot understand it or refuse to accept
my answer is YOUR problem - don't make it mine.

Now go away unless you have something of substance to contribute here.

Jorge

[Tiggy]

That massive explosion you heard, like a Barringer meteorite hitting the earth, was my irony meter blowing up.

I have already responded to that, you Dodo Bird!

Problem is your response consisted of nothing but more empty bluster, hand-waving away of the evidence, and insults.

You didn't actually answer any of the questions.

It was enlightening for the lurkers I'm sure to see just how fast a could run.

- T

[Roy]

Thus, my opening position is, "Barring something straight out of the pages of science fiction,
interstellar travel - to extrasolar planets - is a myth that is heavily promoted so as to extract
an endless stream of dollars and resources from a society that can hardly afford this luxury."

Comments ?

Why would anyone bother promoting interstellar travel for this purpose when promoting religion is so much more effective?

Roy

[Jorge]

Why would anyone bother promoting interstellar travel for this purpose when promoting religion is so much more effective?

Roy

*****************************************************

And you think that Atheists like yourself don't heavily promote your religion?
Try to get a grip on reality, will ya?

Jorge

[RBerman]

Well, Voyager 1 has been underway for nearly 35 years, has traveled about 120 AU, and is in the process now of exiting the far side of the heliosphere and entering truly interstellar space. It is still in communication with Earth. So if we're talking about interstellar travel, it's happening right now, in all our lifetimes. Voyager 2 will do the same within most of our lifetimes. Neither craft is likely to reach any other star system within our lifetimes, unless we invent stasis or immortality, but interstellar TRAVEL is happening as we watch.

The interstellar travel discussed in this thread was human colonization.

[phank]

The interstellar travel discussed in this thread was human colonization.

The OP says

Thus, my opening position is, "Barring something straight out of the pages of science fiction,
interstellar travel - to extrasolar planets - is a myth that is heavily promoted so as to extract
an endless stream of dollars and resources from a society that can hardly afford this luxury."

I don't read this as requiring colonization. If you do, OK, where is it? To me, this is talking very explicitly about interstellar travel, and that IS happening right now.

If colonization has snuck into this thread by some sort of presumption, then I would say this is not currently feasible.

[pancreasman]

kmhn57l.jpg

[oxmixmudd]

Several years ago I wrote something to the effect that barring something
straight out of science fiction, travel to planets around other stars will
not ever be achieved.. I stand by that statement.

Yet, agencies like NASA and others frequently and heavily promote the viability of interstellar travel.
For instance: http://search.nasa.gov/search/search...stellar+travel
Nowhere will you find that NASA is candid about the facts that make interstellar travel 'impossible'
except under science fiction scenarios. Why is this so?

There are some real and serious issues right here on Earth that could certainly use the tens of
billions of dollars that are spent trying to achieve the "myth" of interstellar travel.

On the interstellar travel ruse, I have a few ideas and this thread is to see what others think.

Three ideas are:

They promote the myth of interstellar travel .............................

(1) To obtain and maintain funding for their organizations and projects.

(2) A corollary to (1) is: to obtain job security, clout and political power for themselves.

(3) To exercise a Humanistic, materialistic worldview, e.g., "Man is in full control of his destiny."


Thus, my opening position is, "Barring something straight out of the pages of science fiction,
interstellar travel - to extrasolar planets - is a myth that is heavily promoted so as to extract
an endless stream of dollars and resources from a society that can hardly afford this luxury."

Comments ?

Jorge

Hello Jorge.

We are, in fact, living on a natural system capable of and accomplishing multigenerational interstellar travel. It is far from sci-fi, it is where we live.

So the question really is how do we create a system that can do the same. If we take a multigenerational approach then what is needed is not new science, but simply new technology and a lot of resources committed to the project.

To get to another system in a human lifetime is another matter. There are propsals for how to do it using existing science, so it's still not so much new science that is the problem as it is the will to make it happen and the time to develop the technology.

As for why - it's just a big adventure. The desire to know what is out there. And this is just as much a component of a Christian world view as it is any other.

Jim

[gallileo]

Just wanted to point out what I posted earlier..
Project Orion in the 60s ..showed it technologically feasible USING 60S TECHNOLOGY to travel to the stars --8000000 Ton rocket..135 years..taking passengers.

Given the travel time, this would be a multigenerational trip ..a gigantic starship..powered by nucear bombs! Crude..but it would work. Cost was very high but I believe a reduction in the defense dept for 10 yrs by 10% would fund it.

Jorge, read my earlier post carefully.

This seems to disprove the premise of this thread.. "interstellar travel - to extrasolar planets - is a myth"..

It is possible, our society does not have this as a priority for now.

Your response ?

[Jorge]

Just wanted to point out what I posted earlier..
Project Orion in the 60s ..showed it technologically feasible USING 60S TECHNOLOGY to travel to the stars --8000000 Ton rocket..135 years..taking passengers.

Given the travel time, this would be a multigenerational trip ..a gigantic starship..powered by nucear bombs! Crude..but it would work. Cost was very high but I believe a reduction in the defense dept for 10 yrs by 10% would fund it.

Jorge, read my earlier post carefully.

This seems to disprove the premise of this thread.. "interstellar travel - to extrasolar planets - is a myth"..

It is possible, our society does not have this as a priority for now.

Your response ?

************************************************************

To provide you with an adequate response I need more information
about what you propose. For instance, you speak of 135 years travel
time and an 8 mega-ton spaceship. I know about the Orion idea from
way back in the 1960's - it is an absurd idea once you do the arithmetic.
Tell me, what star did you have in mind ... how far away is it?
Answer me that and I will do some simple math for you that proves
it ain't gon'na happen.

But most important of all, I have to correct what you say above.
I did NOT say that travel to interstellar planets is a "myth".
I DID say that travel to interstellar planets will never happen UNLESS
something straight out of science fiction comes onto the scene.

NASA and others promote the feasibility of interstellar travel as much
as they do for two main reasons:
(1) money and, (2) to promote a Humanistic / Materialistic worldview.

Most people are clueless and just suck-up the 'StarTrek' fantasy.

Jorge

[Jorge]

Hello Jorge.

We are, in fact, living on a natural system capable of and accomplishing multigenerational interstellar travel. It is far from sci-fi, it is where we live.

So the question really is how do we create a system that can do the same. If we take a multigenerational approach then what is needed is not new science, but simply new technology and a lot of resources committed to the project.

To get to another system in a human lifetime is another matter. There are propsals for how to do it using existing science, so it's still not so much new science that is the problem as it is the will to make it happen and the time to develop the technology.

As for why - it's just a big adventure. The desire to know what is out there. And this is just as much a component of a Christian world view as it is any other.

Jim

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(1) You've been spending too much time watching StarTrek.

(2) Your thought process is at a 7th 4th grade level.

(3) Just do some basic math and you'll see how science fiction must be invoked.

(4) Of course, if you wish to have a 'blank check' onto which trillions of
tons of materials and hundreds of human generations may be written, then
anything is possible. However, I'm trying to stay within REALITY.

Jorge