Post-Mortem apostasy

[OtherCheek]

But how will all the people in those other continents where there are no records (that we know of) become Mormons, then?

Interestingly, though, the BIBLE has been translated into languages from all over the world and have been distributed all over the world. Perhaps that is the only "record" that is necessary?

During what century did that happen?

I mean, it would be a real shame if God didn't leave golden plates all over the place and put people like JS in place to "find" them so that peoples all over the world wouldn't have to wait until they are dead before they actually hear the gospel. Aren't there other "other" sheep? Not in North America?[

Joseph Smith didn't come on the scene until the 1830's.

Like I said earlier, the only work that happens in the World of Spirits is the preaching of the gospel to the majority of mankind who never had a fair hearing of the Gospel during their lifetimes, (and in their own tongue too.)

[David Hayward]

what changes at Judgment day? why can't they rebel after that?

After the final exam has ended, the idea of writing snarky remarks on your test paper becomes moot. The test is over. You can't go back in time to a point when the test was still being given, and make your grade worse, or change answers.

Much though I mistrust the argument that faith is paramount over works, this seems to claim that active faith (or absence thereof) would be of no value, only the "work" of past faith.

Is this right?

David

[OtherCheek]

Much though I mistrust the argument that faith is paramount over works, this seems to claim that active faith (or absence thereof) would be of no value, only the "work" of past faith.

Is this right?

David

All I think it claims is that God knows our hearts and we know our own hearts, and we have proven ourselves.

In LDS thought, this life is like the a "final examination" as I have learned. This "FINAL" so to speak, is the culmination of a lengthy series of prior examinations. If God still doesn't know us by the time this life is over, and if we still don't know ourselves by the time this life is over, He will never know us and we will never know ourselves. God knows that those who have proven themselves worthy and capable and have a proven disposition for good will not turn to evil because what evil will we not have already overcome through the Atonement of Christ? Who will there be to tempt us in the resurrection?

Good works will continue forever because that is one's disposition. And that will not change. If it were to change with God, or any part of his perfect attributes become corrupt, then God would cease to be a being worthy of worship. He would cease to be God. And the same for anyone who inherits that type of glory.

Alma 42:13
Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.

[David Hayward]

There are times when I am very aware that King James' English is half-way to Chaucer's; but the rest is clear enough, and I thank you for the clarification.

David

[mossrose]

During what century did that happen?

That's not a real question, is it? Seriously?

Joseph Smith didn't come on the scene until the 1830's.

What's your point? Where are the other "joseph smith's" in all the other continents who can "find" golden plates for their own lands?

Like I said earlier, the only work that happens in the World of Spirits is the preaching of the gospel to the majority of mankind who never had a fair hearing of the Gospel during their lifetimes, (and in their own tongue too.)

Where are the other "joseph smith's" in all the other continents who can "find" golden plates for their own lands?

[nrajeff]

Where are the other "joseph smith's" in all the other continents who can "find" golden plates for their own lands?

God will answer that when those other lands reach a state of readiness similar to what the USA reached. Until then, He is under no obligation to tell you His timeline.

[mossrose]

God will answer that when those other lands reach a state of readiness similar to what the USA reached. Until then, He is under no obligation to tell you His timeline.

Well, isn't North America just so special!

Edit: Oops, I should have said the USA. I guess Canada and Mexico aren't ready yet.

[nrajeff]

Well, isn't North America just so special!

It is in some ways, but....

Edit: Oops, I should have said the USA.

There you go. Yes, the USA is one of he greatest nations in world history. LDS believe that it was no accident--that there was divine assistance involved in the founding of the USA--because God had planned it that way long ago.

I guess Canada and Mexico aren't ready yet.

They are good nations, and they have the potential to become great ones (sorry, hosers, but Canada is no USA).

Thanks to the example of freedoms pioneered by the USA, Mexico and Canada might be
ready to allow revolutionary events such as are connected with the emergence of the BOM, but since there is no requirement that a comparable set of records have existed in every nation as we currently label them, it's moot. If the BOM is a New-world witness to the New World of Jesus' divinity and reality, like the Bible is an Old World-based witness, then those are sufficient for now. If in the future God allows ancient testaments to Christ's reality/divinity to be unearthed in other places where ancient civilizations existed, that will be wonderful and welcome (well, it will be welcomed by the LDS at least). But thanks to the Bible and BOM, there are already two semi-independent witnesses about Christ.

[Cerebrum123]

It is in some ways, but....


There you go. Yes, the USA is one of he greatest nations in world history. LDS believe that it was no accident--that there was divine assistance involved in the founding of the USA--because God had planned it that way long ago.


Thanks to the example of freedoms pioneered by the USA, Mexico and Canada might be
ready to allow revolutionary events such as are connected with the emergence of the BOM, but since there is no requirement that a comparable set of records have existed in every nation as we currently label them, it's moot. If the BOM is a New-world witness to the New World of Jesus' divinity and reality, like the Bible is an Old World-based witness, then those are sufficient for now. If in the future God allows ancient testaments to Christ's reality/divinity to be unearthed in other places where ancient civilizations existed, that will be wonderful and welcome (well, it will be welcomed by the LDS at least). But thanks to the Bible and BOM, there are already two semi-independent witnesses about Christ.

The Bible is FAR more than one witness. Also, the BoM, and other LDS "scriptures" are works of fiction with no historical reliability, then it would be BEST if no more "revelations"(the best words to describe this would be "another Gospel which isn't a Gospel at all") showed up. We already have enough false prophets and religions in the world, adding more is NOT a good idea.

[mossrose]

(sorry, hosers, but Canada is no USA).

As a hoser, I thank God for that fact every day.

But thanks to the Bible

I'll stop right there, thanks. The Bible is sufficient for me to believe all that is revealed by God about Himself and salvation, and I don't need the BoM added to it.

[Cerebrum123]

As a hoser, I thank God for that fact every day.




I'll stop right there, thanks. The Bible is sufficient for me to believe all that is revealed by God about Himself and salvation, and I don't need the BoM added to it.

Especially since the BoM is just a work of fiction that has pagan polytheistic notions in it. That, and it basically contradicts Biblical doctrine in significant ways.

[mossrose]

Acts 10:34

So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11

Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.

These tell me that God doesn't care any more about the US of A any more than He cares about the rest of the world.

After all, John 3:16 tells us that God so loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes will have eternal life.

[OtherCheek]

The Bible is FAR more than one witness.

How many nations are bearing witness of Jesus Christ in the Biblical record?

Also, the BoM, and other LDS "scriptures" are works of fiction with no historical reliability,

Only in the mind of an unbeliever.

then it would be BEST if no more "revelations"(the best words to describe this would be "another Gospel which isn't a Gospel at all") showed up. We already have enough false prophets and religions in the world, adding more is NOT a good idea.

Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also. 2 Ne 29:6-8

[OtherCheek]

Where are the other "joseph smith's" in all the other continents who can "find" golden plates for their own lands?

That's not a real question, is it? Seriously?

[OtherCheek]

These tell me that God doesn't care any more about the US of A any more than He cares about the rest of the world.

I think God takes an interest in establishing and preserving religious and economic freedom in at least some parts of the world.