The Problem of Evil

[jethrorlz]

Mormons do not believe in original sin. How would they address the problem of evil? If everyone is essentially saved (with the exception of apostates and Satan), is sin really a problem and what was the purpose of the Atonement of Christ?

[Sparko]

[KingsGambit]

Personally, I think the objective philosophical weight of the "problem of evil" as an argument against theism tends to be overstated.

[Cow Poke]

Mormons do not believe in original sin. How would they address the problem of evil? If everyone is essentially saved (with the exception of apostates and Satan), is sin really a problem and what was the purpose of the Atonement of Christ?

There appeared to be, in the early Mormon Church, a kind of "original sin" doctrine, according to Mormon History Professor Thomas Alexander in his 1980 work "The Reconstruction of Mormon Doctrine: From Joseph Smith to Progressive Theology

The book of Mormon included a form of the doctrine of original sin, defined as a “condition of sinfulness [attaching] as a quality or property to every person simply by virtue of his humanness.” Though sinfulness inhered in mankind from the fall of Adam according to early works, it applied to individual men only from the age of accountability and ability to repent, not from birth. Very young children were free from this sin, but every accountable person merited punishment. 13 Lehi’s discussion of the necessity of opposition in II Nephi 2, particularly verses 7 through 13, made such sinfulness a necessary part of God’s plan, since the law, the atonement , and righteousness--indeed the fulfillment of the purposes of the creation--were contingent upon man ’s sinfulness .

[Cerebrum123]

[OtherCheek]

Mormons do not believe in original sin. How would they address the problem of evil? If everyone is essentially saved (with the exception of apostates and Satan), is sin really a problem and what was the purpose of the Atonement of Christ?

In the LDS view, as I have been taught, evil has no true beginning. It is as eternal as is the concept of good.

Sin is a problem. The unrepentant sinner and the rebellious and the wicked will suffer before they can be cleansed by the power of the Atonement of Christ, and before they can obtain that degree of salvation they are able to receive and that degree of gospel law they are able to abide by.

The purpose of the Atonement of Christ is to offer all mankind the opportunity to overcome the world and be saved by obedience to the principles and ordinances of the Gospel.

[Cow Poke]

Sin is a problem.

I concur.

[Hamster]

If evil is an eternal part of the cosmos, what makes it "wrong?"

[OtherCheek]

If evil is an eternal part of the cosmos, what makes it "wrong?"

Its eternal opposite--"Right."

[onefour1]

The problem of evil, as presented to me in a college course on the philosophy of religion, is that if God is all powerful and an all good being, then why does he allow evil to exist? When God establishes what righteousness is, by nature an opposite exists. Thus 2 Nephi chapter 2 teaches this principle that there is opposition in all things. In order to eliminate evil, God would have to eliminate Good. Once a law is given, then the breaking of that law becomes a possibility. Perfection is always choosing the good when given free will. God is a perfect being. He always chooses good. In LDS thought, God had to progress to become perfect. LDS believe that all beings are self existent. The mind and matter that make up man have always existed. That part of man that has always existed as that part of an individual is known as intelligence. It was never created or made and neither indeed can be. It is eternal by nature. God, once existed as only an intelligence and has progressed in the eternities to become a perfect being. It is the desire of God to help his fellow intelligences progress to perfection.

Through the process of becoming a spirit being in the image of God and then receiving a body in his same image is a part of the progression necessary to become like God. It is also essential that the intelligences with spirits and bodies have free will to choose. Without free will they cannot become perfect because God is a being with free will and has learned to choose good over evil. Without free will, one cannot learn to be good in and of themselves. Free will is essential to God's plan for having his children progess to become like himself. But because God's children are self-existent intelligences that could not be created or made, God could not make these beings perfect. God has to move these self existent intelligences along in their existence to progress to be like him. He can't make them perfect and he can't force them to be perfect. If he forced them to be perfect, then the intelligences would not be choosing good and not be doing good in and of themselves. Because of free will, not all intelligences will choose to do good. Some of them use their free will to do evil. But God will not take away free will because it is essential for the progression of his children. Some of the intelligences will follow after God and choose the right. Only these spirits will eventually progress to become like God. So in LDS thought, the principle of evil exists because it is an opposite of goodness. Actual evil exists because some of the intelligences choose to do it. God must allow it because in order to be fair to all the intelligences, he must give them all free will and the opportunity to become like him. Because God realizes that we are not perfect beings he has allowed us the opportunity to repent and be forgiven of sins. But if we don't repent of our evil ways, we cannot become like God. We have to learn to choose good and forsake evil.

God has prepared various kingdoms for all to inherit once they have made their choice and have been given ample time to repent. The righeous will enjoy the kingdom of heaven, also known as the celestial kingdom. Others who don't make it will have to go to another kingdom. Those who choose to be sons of perdition will find themselves in outer darkness. The atonement of Jesus Christ was given out of love for us so that God could give us a good chance to make it into the kingdom of heaven. It is the will of God that we should repent and become like him. But because of free will, not all of us will make it.

[Hamster]

Its eternal opposite--"Right."

How can something that's a fundamental part of the universe be "wrong?" Seems like it should be morally neutral

[Cerebrum123]

The problem of evil, as presented to me in a college course on the philosophy of religion, is that if God is all powerful and an all good being, then why does he allow evil to exist? When God establishes what righteousness is, by nature an opposite exists. Thus 2 Nephi chapter 2 teaches this principle that there is opposition in all things. In order to eliminate evil, God would have to eliminate Good. Once a law is given, then the breaking of that law becomes a possibility. Perfection is always choosing the good when given free will. God is a perfect being. He always chooses good. In LDS thought, God had to progress to become perfect. LDS believe that all beings are self existent. The mind and matter that make up man have always existed. That part of man that has always existed as that part of an individual is known as intelligence. It was never created or made and neither indeed can be. It is eternal by nature. God, once existed as only an intelligence and has progressed in the eternities to become a perfect being. It is the desire of God to help his fellow intelligences progress to perfection.

Through the process of becoming a spirit being in the image of God and then receiving a body in his same image is a part of the progression necessary to become like God. It is also essential that the intelligences with spirits and bodies have free will to choose. Without free will they cannot become perfect because God is a being with free will and has learned to choose good over evil. Without free will, one cannot learn to be good in and of themselves. Free will is essential to God's plan for having his children progess to become like himself. But because God's children are self-existent intelligences that could not be created or made, God could not make these beings perfect. God has to move these self existent intelligences along in their existence to progress to be like him. He can't make them perfect and he can't force them to be perfect. If he forced them to be perfect, then the intelligences would not be choosing good and not be doing good in and of themselves. Because of free will, not all intelligences will choose to do good. Some of them use their free will to do evil. But God will not take away free will because it is essential for the progression of his children. Some of the intelligences will follow after God and choose the right. Only these spirits will eventually progress to become like God. So in LDS thought, the principle of evil exists because it is an opposite of goodness. Actual evil exists because some of the intelligences choose to do it. God must allow it because in order to be fair to all the intelligences, he must give them all free will and the opportunity to become like him. Because God realizes that we are not perfect beings he has allowed us the opportunity to repent and be forgiven of sins. But if we don't repent of our evil ways, we cannot become like God. We have to learn to choose good and forsake evil.

God has prepared various kingdoms for all to inherit once they have made their choice and have been given ample time to repent. The righeous will enjoy the kingdom of heaven, also known as the celestial kingdom. Others who don't make it will have to go to another kingdom. Those who choose to be sons of perdition will find themselves in outer darkness. The atonement of Jesus Christ was given out of love for us so that God could give us a good chance to make it into the kingdom of heaven. It is the will of God that we should repent and become like him. But because of free will, not all of us will make it.

Sounds an awful lot like Taoist philosophy(concerning evil), but mixing in Greek notions of progressing to become a god. I don't understand how you can't see that LDS is just a pagan heresy claiming Christianity as a foundation.

[jethrorlz]

"In the LDS view, as I have been taught, evil has no true beginning. It is as eternal as is the concept of good.

Sin is a problem. The unrepentant sinner and the rebellious and the wicked will suffer before they can be cleansed by the power of the Atonement of Christ, and before they can obtain that degree of salvation they are able to receive and that degree of gospel law they are able to abide by.

The purpose of the Atonement of Christ is to offer all mankind the opportunity to overcome the world and be saved by obedience to the principles and ordinances of the Gospel."




If mankind has to "work" to be saved, then what purpose does the atonement serve? Christ would have died in vain if humans had to work for their salvation. The purpose of the Atonement was to present those who follow and believe in Christ blameless and righteous before God. If I have to work for that, I will never achieve it. No matter how "good" I try to be, I cannot measure up to the requirements of the Law of God.

[OtherCheek]

How can something that's a fundamental part of the universe be "wrong?" Seems like it should be morally neutral

Evil is not a particle of matter floating about in space. It is a concept and a choice. And that concept has existed as long as the concept of good. They are eternal opposites like the concepts of happiness and misery, spiritual light and spiritual darkness, etc. God, knowing this principle provided Gospel laws and principles and commandments for us to obey (His Plan of Happiness and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.) If we follow those laws and principles, we will find greater and greater joy and fulness and happiness. The Gospel is the guideline to lead us to good, joy and happiness. As opposed to darkness, misery, and spiritual death which are the eternal rewards of choosing evil.

[jethrorlz]

What is the mormon gospel?