What do you think or feel about the Constitution?

[Conductor42]

In some ways I would revert to our original constitution. I would re-write our map - we have too many states. Then I would give the states more powers (our federal government has no business in many areas it is involved in, however I wouldn't mind - though may not agree with - a larger 'state' power being involved in them). I would add clauses to require that laws be re-examined after X amount of years, or expire, no matter what. Maybe every 15 or 20 years? I would revert our patents and copyrights back to the founder's original 14 year limit, this idea that you can be sued for downloading an Elvis album is stupid.

Every few years, constitutions throughout the world are scrapped and new ones are written. What do you think about the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Do you still defend it today as a recipe for preserving and maintaining freedom? Or would you scrap it as being old fashioned, and replace it with something new and different.

Thomas Jefferson wrote:
“Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.” — (Thomas Jefferson, Works 8:3)

[Conductor42]

Do you have a better idea for the governing of a people want to live free, prior to the Millennium?

Dearest Darth does not believe in freedom. He believes in order.

Correct me if I am wrong, Executor.

[Darth Executor]

Dearest Darth does not believe in freedom. He believes in order.

Correct me if I am wrong, Executor.

I believe in justice and prosperity. Order is usually necessary for both, but not a goal in and of itself. You're right that I don't believe in freedom.

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
John Adams

At no point in history did the US (or any other country) really match this description.

[Darth Executor]

Ink on paper that greatly helped to make our nation great.

Europe blowing itself up made your country great.

[Teallaura]

Europe blowing itself up made your country great.

A does not preclude B, you realize...

[OtherCheek]

Europe blowing itself up made your country great.

Possibly. Because so many good people came to know tyranny and fled to America to escape it. Good people made this nation great. And they came here because of our constitutional freedoms.

[Darth Executor]

A does not preclude B, you realize...

The US wasn't anything special in terms of prosperity and power for most of its post-constitution history.

Then there are the other advantages it has: isolation (which helped with not getting blown up when Europe did), size, weather (Canada's bigger but much of it is unworkable). Personal freedom is, at best, a non-factor.

[Darth Executor]

A does not preclude B, you realize...

The US wasn't anything special in terms of prosperity and power for most of its post-constitution history.

Then there are the other advantages it has: isolation (which helped with not getting blown up when Europe did), size, weather (Canada's bigger but much of it is unworkable). Personal freedom is, at best, a non-factor.

[OtherCheek]

Personal freedom is, at best, a non-factor.

Personal freedom is the biggest factor, actually.

You should read about the first American experiment with socialism / communism at Plymouth Colony and Governor William Bradford.

http://www.heritage.org/research/com...th-free-market

[OtherCheek]

Personal freedom is, at best, a non-factor.

Personal freedom is the biggest factor, actually.

You should read about the first American experiment with socialism / communism at Plymouth Colony and Governor William Bradford.

http://www.heritage.org/research/com...th-free-market

[Darth Executor]

Personal freedom is the biggest factor, actually.

No it isn't. There's a good reason why European countries were the ruling powers for much of the US's history despite having taken (and continuing to take) a much less favorable view on personal freedom.

You should read about the first American experiment with socialism / communism

Personal freedom and economic freedom are not the same thing, and socialism/communism are relatively new government systems. One can be totalitarian without being communist.

[JimL]

Every few years, constitutions throughout the world are scrapped and new ones are written. What do you think about the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Do you still defend it today as a recipe for preserving and maintaining freedom? Or would you scrap it as being old fashioned, and replace it with something new and different.

Slavery was written into the constitution. Its not writ in stone, which is something you constitution nuts don't seem to understand.
Thomas Jefferson wrote:

“Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.” — (Thomas Jefferson, Works 8:3)

And history has, its been amended.

[joel]

I believe in justice and prosperity. Order is usually necessary for both, but not a goal in and of itself. You're right that I don't believe in freedom.

Speaking as a libertarian, justice and freedom/liberty are just flip-sides of the same coin. They logically imply the other. Or another way to put it is that a libertarian defines liberty in such a way that it is just a different way of speaking of justice.

That is, a person's right to liberty is the right to that against which the use of force would be an act of injustice. For example suppose I'm sitting reading a book and sipping lemonade. I have the right to the freedom to do so if it would be an act of injustice to use force upon me just for doing so. (As a corollary, this also implies that an act within the bounds of rightful liberty is itself not an act of injustice.)

Or looking at it the other way, where justice forbids people from using force against a person--let's call her Alice--is the scope of Alice's rightful liberty.

The limits of rightful liberty is justice. And the limits that justice imposes define rightful liberty.

Personal freedom and economic freedom are not the same thing

Yes, they are. All human action is economic action.


But here are some quotes in support of your (Darth's) main point (which I am not disputing).

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain --- that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
Lysander Spooner, 1870, No Treason No. 6 http://lysanderspooner.org/node/64

"On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation. [...] Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force and not of right."
Thomas Jefferson, Sep. 6, 1789, Letter to James Madison http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl81.htm

[Patricken]

It's said that justice implies liberty. I agree everybody has d right to liberty but at d same time one should not act properly that it becomes an action of injustice. Well I just have little knowledge about Constitution. I think for deep interest I should judiciary guidebooks and study about it. It 's really helpful in general.

[NeilUnreal]

I think the U.S. Constitution is a great document. But what's really great about America has been our mutual, voluntary decision to govern ourselves by it.

Well, except for that one time in the 1860's...

-Neil