are OC and Jeff going to hell?

[Cow Poke]

not living one's life the best way one knows how. At Judgment Day, the proper response is not "I did the best I could," but "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner!"

!!! That's the same thing OBP said!


ETA: Oh ... you edited!

[Sparko]

You're doing a really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really


CRAPPY job of making the case for any good reasons for joining your cult of anti-LDS "Christianity."

we have cookies.

[One Bad Pig]

Christianity is about submission to the will of God

Isn't that synonymous with the LDS idea that discipleship should be about OBEDIENCE to God?

At that level of detail, the ideas are synonymous.

Yet when the LDS person says it, it's somehow a BAD thing, a "works-BASED" thing.

I don't recall seeing works-based discipleship condemned anywhere.

Isn't that weird how prejudice can cause a person to high-five one's fellow-"faith tradition subscriber" who says something, and mock someone who says the same thing if that person has a theology that is felt to be incorrect?

Why would I mock someone who says something I agree with?

[Cerebrum123]

Isn't that synonymous with the LDS idea that discipleship should be about OBEDIENCE to God? Yet when the LDS person says it, it's somehow a BAD thing, a "works-BASED" thing.

Isn't that weird how prejudice can cause a person to high-five one's fellow-"faith tradition subscriber" who says something, and mock someone who says the same thing if that person has a theology that is felt to be incorrect?

The problem is Jeff, that when LDS use Christian terminology, it often means something ENTIRELY different, than what a Christian would mean by the same sentence. That's where everything starts to go wrong. You know what they say 'the devil is in the details", and he certainly shows himself in those details in all false religions.

[nrajeff]

At that level of detail, the ideas are synonymous.

So you would object if certain posters mocked or criticized a church's choice to place importance on obedience to / submission to God? Good to know.

Why would I mock someone who says something I agree with?

Maybe you wouldn't, but some people's prejudices result in them doing all kinds of unreasonable things.

[Bill the Cat]

Maybe you wouldn't, but some people's prejudices result in them doing all kinds of unreasonable things.

Yeah, like you defending the "historicity" of the Book of Mormon...

[Cow Poke]

So you would object if certain posters mocked or criticized a church's choice to place importance on obedience to / submission to God? Good to know.

Who, exactly, is mocking the importance of obedience to / submission to God, Jeff? Exact quote, please.

[Cow Poke]

That's just stupid, and dishonest of you to claim that.

You're saying that because salt is a tiny, but necessary, ingredient in your body chemistry, you are a salt-BASED life form.

Would you agree that humans are classified as "carbon based", Jeff?
Do you have any idea what percentage of the human body is carbon?

[Cerebrum123]

Would you agree that humans are classified as "carbon based", Jeff?
Do you have any idea what percentage of the human body is carbon?

Carbon base life form, doesn't really mean that we are made primarily out of carbon. We are actually primarily composed of water, but for some reason "carbon based" is a term used in the scientific community(I mostly see it in sci fi type stuff, but it still has it's basis in science AFAIK). I think there is a different parameter being measured other than what we are primarily composed of on this particular subject, might want to ask the guys in Nat. Sci. about this one.

[Cow Poke]

Carbon base life form, doesn't really mean that we are made primarily out of carbon. We are actually primarily composed of water, but for some reason "carbon based" is a term used in the scientific community(I mostly see it in sci fi type stuff, but it still has it's basis in science AFAIK). I think there is a different parameter being measured other than what we are primarily composed of on this particular subject, might want to ask the guys in Nat. Sci. about this one.

Correct. We are PRIMARILY composed of Oxygen (largely as part of H20) and carbon comes in at less than 20%, followed by hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium..... We are called "carbon based" because of carbon's unique ability to bind with just about anything, being an ideal building block.

Jeff was using this analogy (only he picked on salt ) to "prove" that we can't call Mormonism "works-based" because it is not (according to him) PRIMARILY works based.

[Cerebrum123]

Correct. We are PRIMARILY composed of Oxygen (largely as part of H20) and carbon comes in at less than 20%, followed by hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium..... We are called "carbon based" because of carbon's unique ability to bind with just about anything, being an ideal building block.

Jeff was using this analogy (only he picked on salt ) to "prove" that we can't call Mormonism "works-based" because it is not (according to him) PRIMARILY works based.

Which is why it was a bad argument to begin with.
Especially since it can be demonstrated that LDS focuses on works as a requirement for salvation.

[nrajeff]

Which is why it was a bad argument to begin with.
Especially since it can be demonstrated that LDS focuses on works as a requirement for salvation.

We believe that IT IS through the Atonement of Christ THAT all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

What you should get from that:

1. The idea that were it not for Christ's atonement, none of us could be saved.

2. The idea that it is by your obedience to Christ that salvific grace is made efficacious for you.

For you to twist that into a FOCUS ON WORKS as a requirement for salvation is, well, twisting.

And if you are really hell-bent on advocating YOUR opposing idea--that obedience is merely an OPTION, and that heaven will be filled with disobedient people because obedience wasn't a condition for admission--then I wonder which of us is farther from authentic Christian doctrine?

[Bill the Cat]

We believe that IT IS through the Atonement of Christ THAT all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

What you should get from that:

1. The idea that were it not for Christ's atonement, none of us could be saved.

2. The idea that it is by your obedience to Christ that salvific grace is made efficacious for you.

For you to twist that into a FOCUS ON WORKS as a requirement for salvation is, well, twisting.

And if you are really hell-bent on advocating YOUR opposing idea--that obedience is merely an OPTION, and that heaven will be filled with disobedient people because obedience wasn't a condition for admission--then I wonder which of us is farther from authentic Christian doctrine?

Not Mormons.

[nrajeff]

Not Mormons.

Kudos to you for giving the correct answer to the question.

[Bill the Cat]

Kudos to you for giving the correct answer to the question.