are OC and Jeff going to hell?

[Cow Poke]

Yes, THAT!

[Cerebrum123]

42 Sparko 42

Isn't that the grand answer to everything?

[Sparko]

Well since OC hasn't provided any official teaching on "after all you can do" I went hunting on the LDS.org site (yes, that well-known anti site that CP and I like to use so much)

Ezran Taft Benson said:

"What is meant by “after all we can do”?
After all we can do” includes extending our best effort. It includes living his commandments."
http://www.lds.org/liahona/1988/12/r...-all-we-can-do

emphasis mine.

so if you slack off and don't give your BEST effort, then you are not doing all you can do. You are doing less.

So if the bar is doing your BEST, then by not doing your best, you will not be saved. Because according to the LDS, grace is not sufficient. Which mormon here can honestly say that they have never given less than their best effort? Ever cheated on your taxes? Said a rude word? missed going to temple a few times? Told a lie? Been jealous and coveted something someone else had?

[Bill the Cat]

Well, there is that "other Jesus" thing...

[nrajeff]

Ever cheated on your taxes?

No. They have cheated on me, though.

Said a rude word?

Me? Never.

missed going to temple a few times?

Every time I wasn't able to attend, I missed it.

Told a lie?

I may have once told OC that you weren't all that bad, for an anti. Does that count?

Been jealous and coveted something someone else had?

I am sometimes jealous of the skill with which the mockers do their mocking. I have wished that I was that good at it.

[OtherCheek]

Well since OC hasn't provided any official teaching on "after all you can do" I went hunting on the LDS.org site (yes, that well-known anti site that CP and I like to use so much)

Ezran Taft Benson said:

"What is meant by “after all we can do”?
After all we can do” includes extending our best effort. It includes living his commandments."
http://www.lds.org/liahona/1988/12/r...-all-we-can-do

emphasis mine.

so if you slack off and don't give your BEST effort, then you are not doing all you can do. You are doing less.

So if the bar is doing your BEST, then by not doing your best, you will not be saved. Because according to the LDS, grace is not sufficient. Which mormon here can honestly say that they have never given less than their best effort? Ever cheated on your taxes? Said a rude word? missed going to temple a few times? Told a lie? Been jealous and coveted something someone else had?

That's why LDS believe in repentance. And that only the penitent can be reclaimed. Sparko has never heard of such doctrine, apparently.

[mossrose]

No. They have cheated on me, though.


Me? Never.


Every time I wasn't able to attend, I missed it.


I may have once told OC that you weren't all that bad, for an anti. Does that count?


I am sometimes jealous of the skill with which the mockers do their mocking. I have wished that I was that good at it.

Your humility apparently knows no bounds.

[Sparko]

No. They have cheated on me, though.


Me? Never.


Every time I wasn't able to attend, I missed it.


I may have once told OC that you weren't all that bad, for an anti. Does that count?


I am sometimes jealous of the skill with which the mockers do their mocking. I have wished that I was that good at it.

wow jeff. that was some response. I guess you are indeed going to hell now since are not doing ALL you can do.

[Sparko]

That's why LDS believe in repentance. And that only the penitent can be reclaimed. Sparko has never heard of such doctrine, apparently.

so you believe in "cheap forgiveness" then? That you can go about slacking and not doing your best, and then later just say "I repent" and everything will be OK?

How long do you have to do this "repenting"? Do you have to be alive when you do it or can you just do it after you die? I mean, if you want to just be a bad mormon and not follow the gospel principals, not do your best, and not "all you can do" and then you can just repent later, then you have basically short-circuited the whole "after all you can do" doctrine, haven't you? I doesn't mean anything if you can just say "oops, sorry" later.

[nrajeff]

Your humility apparently knows no bounds.

I know, right? That's what I keep telling people, but they don't believe me! Silly people....

[OtherCheek]

so you believe in "cheap forgiveness" then? That you can go about slacking and not doing your best, and then later just say "I repent" and everything will be OK?

You probably know all about 'slacking'.

How long do you have to do this "repenting"? Do you have to be alive when you do it or can you just do it after you die? I mean, if you want to just be a bad mormon and not follow the gospel principals, not do your best, and not "all you can do" and then you can just repent later, then you have basically short-circuited the whole "after all you can do" doctrine, haven't you? I doesn't mean anything if you can just say "oops, sorry" later.

For LDS, repentance is a daily walk. I have no idea if you've even considered the term for yourself though.

So, here is my question for you. What if your "believing" slackens for a day? Do you go to hell for that?

[Sparko]

You probably know all about 'slacking'.


For LDS, repentance is a daily walk. I have no idea if you've even considered the term for yourself though.

So, here is my question for you. What if your "believing" slackens for a day? Do you go to hell for that?

You just avoided the issue and repeated yourself.

Come back when you can address the problem directly.

If you are not doing all that you can do, then are just let off the hook later by saying "I repent" then how is that different than the "cheap grace" you keep complaining that Christians believe in?

What purpose does it even serve to say "after all you can do" if you can just wipe all your slacking off later by saying "sorry God"?

[OtherCheek]

You just avoided the issue and repeated yourself.

Come back when you can address the problem directly.

Addressing the problem directly would force me to become personal with you, Sparko.

If you are not doing all that you can do, then are just let off the hook later by saying "I repent" then how is that different than the "cheap grace" you keep complaining that Christians believe in?

The meaning of "after all you can do" has been explained already. But it didn't register, apparently. Jesus Christ didn't atone for the purpose of granting some favored elect a free license to sin. But that's the Jesus I believe in. Different Jesus, you know.

What purpose does it even serve to say "after all you can do" if you can just wipe all your slacking off later by saying "sorry God"?

It serves the purpose of teaching us that even after our best efforts, it is still by grace that we are saved. Instead of enticing us to think that Jesus gave us a free license to sin--kinda like "after all you can sin".

So, What if your "believing" or your "faith" slackens for a day? Do you go to hell for that?

[Cow Poke]

Instead of enticing us to think that Jesus gave us a free license to sin--kinda like "after all you can sin".

Who thinks that, OC?

[Bill the Cat]

Jesus Christ didn't atone for the purpose of granting some favored elect a free license to sin.

But James still calls those who are sinning "bretheren"

But that's the Jesus I believe in. Different Jesus, you know.

Yes, we know. Yours gets to pin a $20 bill on your "God" coat one day and wish you the best of luck...

It serves the purpose of teaching us that even after our best efforts, it is still by grace that we are saved. Instead of enticing us to think that Jesus gave us a free license to sin--kinda like "after all you can sin".

And OUR Jesus saves us DESPITE our best efforts.

So, What if your "believing" or your "faith" slackens for a day? Do you go to hell for that?

No. Only apostasy will cause that.