are OC and Jeff going to hell?

[Cow Poke]

You are goofy OC.

Belief isn't a work. It's a choice. and the bible clearly contrasts "faith" (believing) with "works"

I think I figured something out.

I was out riding my tractor, still cleaning up from Tuesday's tornado, and I was wondering why Smith made it so hard for people to get saved on earth, yet so EASY to get saved in the afterlife.

HIS BROTHER!!!! His brother didn't have the "chance" (?) to do the "good works" here on earth, and would NEVER "qualify" for God's grace so there had to be a way for Smith's brother to get saved WITHOUT works!

Even in the movie, "Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Fabrication*", they really focused on Smith's concern that his own brother wasn't saved.

So....

To keep a core of hard working people dedicated to paying for and doing the work of the "Temple", Smith comes up with this "after all you can do" thing.... but to make a huge exception for his own brother, he has to give him a second chance in the afterlife.

Yeah, I hear the black helicopters!



*This MAY not be the real name of the Propaganda Piece in which ZERO character flaws or church problems are portrayed.

[Cerebrum123]

I think I figured something out.

I was out riding my tractor, still cleaning up from Tuesday's tornado, and I was wondering why Smith made it so hard for people to get saved on earth, yet so EASY to get saved in the afterlife.

HIS BROTHER!!!! His brother didn't have the "chance" (?) to do the "good works" here on earth, and would NEVER "qualify" for God's grace so there had to be a way for Smith's brother to get saved WITHOUT works!

Even in the movie, "Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Fabrication*", they really focused on Smith's concern that his own brother wasn't saved.

So....

To keep a core of hard working people dedicated to paying for and doing the work of the "Temple", Smith comes up with this "after all you can do" thing.... but to make a huge exception for his own brother, he has to give him a second chance in the afterlife.

Yeah, I hear the black helicopters!



*This MAY not be the real name of the Propaganda Piece in which ZERO character flaws or church problems are portrayed.

Reminds me of the fact that the guy who wrote "Peter Pan" did so for his dead brother "who would never grow up". Kind of sad when you think about though.

[OtherCheek]

Yes. It does.

No. It doesn't. At all.

That's a goofy statement, OC --- "payment for our works"? Where did THAT come from, and why should I expect ANY scripture (real or imagined) to say such a thing.

That's Sparko's argument. And you side with him 101% of the time.

No, OC -- I never characterized anything as "payment for our good works". That's just stupid, and dishonest of you to claim that.

That's Sparko's accusation. And you side with him 101% of the time.

[Cow Poke]

No. It doesn't. At all.

Yes it does. Totally.

That's Sparko's argument. And you side with him 101% of the time.

What a pinko commie gutless sissy silly goofy nonsense balderdash (did I say goofy?) reeeeeeediculous statement!

That's Sparko's accusation. And you side with him 101% of the time.

And you agree with Jeff 197.38% of the time, and he's a freakin DRAMA QUEEN, therefore, you're a Jeffy Kissy Kissy! So THERE!

[OtherCheek]

You are goofy OC.

Belief isn't a work. It's a choice. and the bible clearly contrasts "faith" (believing) with "works"

Still, by your own logic, we could say "if choice is requirement of salvation, then salvation IS a payment for choosing."

In reality, LDS believe God requires both faith AND works, but the atonement (grace) is not "payment" for either one of them.

[Cow Poke]

Still, by your own logic, we could say "if choice is requirement of salvation, then salvation IS a payment for choosing."

You could SAY that, but it would be really stupid. How do you PAY for a FREE GIFT, OC?

In reality, LDS believe God requires both faith AND works, but the atonement (grace) is not "payment" for either one of them.

You don't PAY for a free gift.

(Rom 5:15-16 KJV) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. {16} And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
(Rom 5:18 KJV) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

ONLY MORMONS sit around on Christmas Morning handing each other "gifts" along with a bill to pay for the cost of the purchase of the gift.*



*That was, of course, a ridiculous statement to demonstrate the ridiculous ... hey, wait... you guys DON'T make each other pay for "gifts", do you?

[OtherCheek]

Yes it does. Totally.

not even close.

What a pinko commie gutless sissy silly goofy nonsense balderdash (did I say goofy?) reeeeeeediculous statement!



And you agree with Jeff 197.38% of the time, and he's a freakin DRAMA QUEEN, therefore, you're a Jeffy Kissy Kissy! So THERE!

Well, your mama wears army boots.

[Cow Poke]

not even close.

Mirror image!

Well, your mama wears army boots.

Well, she DID, but she's in HEAVEN now, and she likes the feel of her bare feet on the Golden streets!

[Cow Poke]

OC, can you please PAYPAL me $137.39 so I can buy your FREE Christmas Gift? OH, and I'll send you a SECOND one FREE, but you just pay separate shipping and handling of $391.15, OK?

[ke7ejx]

[Cow Poke]

Why are you angry?

[ke7ejx]

Why are you angry?

haha, I'm not angry, I'm just shaking my head.

[ke7ejx]

haha, I'm not angry, I'm just shaking my head.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......you meant my status...I don't know how it got on Angry, when it should be Sleepy.

[Sparko]

That's Sparko's argument. And you side with him 101% of the time.

wrong. i never argued that the atonement was a payment for works.

I said that Paul argued AGAINST working for SALVATION in Romans 4, because if you work for something then you are trying to make someone owe you for your work. If you are WORKING for SALVATION then you are trying to make God OWE you salvation as payment for that work. But God doesn't "work" that way. He gives us salvation freely for our faith and choosing him. Because he knows we could never earn our salvation because as Romans says when Paul quotes Isaiah "all our righteous acts are as rags"

[Sparko]

Still, by your own logic, we could say "if choice is requirement of salvation, then salvation IS a payment for choosing."

In reality, LDS believe God requires both faith AND works, but the atonement (grace) is not "payment" for either one of them.

that is just stupid OC. That is like saying that accepting a birthday present is payment for the present.