The creation of time and space? What!

[JimL]

If God existed before the universe existed, then how can God have created time? Doesn't the fact that God existed "before" his creation and that the universe existed "after" God, imply that time existed with God? Doesn't a universe that did not exist "before" but now exists "after" imply the existence of time previous to the creation of the universe? And what about space? If God created space, where was he before he created it? Seems to me that the more logical argument is that spacetime always existed.

[pancreasman]

I hate these threads that make my head hurt and people talk about stuff that is untalkaboutable.

Here is a picture of two ducks wearing sunglasses.

Two_Ducks.jpg

[Doug Shaver]

If God existed before the universe existed, then how can God have created time? Doesn't the fact that God existed "before" his creation and that the universe existed "after" God, imply that time existed with God? Doesn't a universe that did not exist "before" but now exists "after" imply the existence of time previous to the creation of the universe? And what about space? If God created space, where was he before he created it? Seems to me that the more logical argument is that spacetime always existed.

If I were a theist, I would say that God's existence is somehow independent of time. I will grant that time-independent existence is inconsistent with how we normally talk about such things, but we cannot rely on the logic of our linguistic habits to make any necessary inferences about the nature of divinity. If there is a being who transcends the knowable universe, we should hardly be surprised if there are some things about him that we will never understand.

[Jedidiah]

If God existed before the universe existed, then how can God have created time? Doesn't the fact that God existed "before" his creation and that the universe existed "after" God, imply that time existed with God? Doesn't a universe that did not exist "before" but now exists "after" imply the existence of time previous to the creation of the universe? And what about space? If God created space, where was he before he created it? Seems to me that the more logical argument is that spacetime always existed.

Because you are not able to understand it? This is a valid reason to doubt? Not to me. It is harder for me to believe that spacetime always existed. That proves you are wrong.

[Tassman]

Because you are not able to understand it? This is a valid reason to doubt? Not to me. It is harder for me to believe that spacetime always existed. That proves you are wrong.

There is considerable evidence that space-time exists but no credible evidence that god exists, so shouldn’t it be easier to believe something that has some evidence supporting it than something that has none?

[lilpixieofterror]

If God existed before the universe existed, then how can God have created time? Doesn't the fact that God existed "before" his creation and that the universe existed "after" God, imply that time existed with God? Doesn't a universe that did not exist "before" but now exists "after" imply the existence of time previous to the creation of the universe? And what about space? If God created space, where was he before he created it? Seems to me that the more logical argument is that spacetime always existed.

Pretty funny, so does this mean we need a God to create time, for God to create time, for God to creat time... Gosh... good thinking Jimmy You'll refute Christianity before you know it.

[robertb]

If God existed before the universe existed, then how can God have created time? Doesn't the fact that God existed "before" his creation and that the universe existed "after" God, imply that time existed with God? Doesn't a universe that did not exist "before" but now exists "after" imply the existence of time previous to the creation of the universe? And what about space? If God created space, where was he before he created it? Seems to me that the more logical argument is that spacetime always existed.

Our universe could simply be a finite bubble floating in an eternal spacetime. So, if this is the accepted premise, it is not a defeater for God existing and creating from this eternal space-time. Kinda like blowing a bubble, I guess.

[magellan004]

There is considerable evidence that space-time exists but no credible evidence that god exists, so shouldn’t it be easier to believe something that has some evidence supporting it than something that has none?

Ahh - another one! 'Empirical', 'Verifiable', now 'Credible'. Keep plugging the holes on the leaky boat 'HMS Dissmissal'.

Magellan

[magellan004]

If God existed before the universe existed, then how can God have created time? Doesn't the fact that God existed "before" his creation and that the universe existed "after" God, imply that time existed with God? Doesn't a universe that did not exist "before" but now exists "after" imply the existence of time previous to the creation of the universe? And what about space? If God created space, where was he before he created it? Seems to me that the more logical argument is that spacetime always existed.

God is a spirit. Part of the spiritual world.

Magellan

[Jedidiah]

Jim, whan will you give up on personal incredulity? So far that is all you have given me.

[shunyadragon]

If God existed before the universe existed, then how can God have created time? Doesn't the fact that God existed "before" his creation and that the universe existed "after" God, imply that time existed with God? Doesn't a universe that did not exist "before" but now exists "after" imply the existence of time previous to the creation of the universe? And what about space? If God created space, where was he before he created it? Seems to me that the more logical argument is that spacetime always existed.

For me in both science and my view of God there exists absolute time in an infinite eternal matrix, both spiritual and physical. Our universe came into existence. and our relative time/space existence began with the expansion of the universe.

[JimL]

Pretty funny, so does this mean we need a God to create time, for God to create time, for God to creat time... Gosh... good thinking Jimmy You'll refute Christianity before you know it.

Don't know how you came up with that from the O.P. lilpix, for something to exist "prior" to the existence of something else suggests that the something else came into existence in time, not with time. How can God have existed "before" the existence of time if there was no time before? To exist "before" something else exists implies the existence of a time before. Also, if there was no space before God created it, where was God before he created space? Your retort gives no answer to the question.

[JimL]

Our universe could simply be a finite bubble floating in an eternal spacetime. So, if this is the accepted premise, it is not a defeater for God existing and creating from this eternal space-time. Kinda like blowing a bubble, I guess.

If our universe is a finite bubble floating within an eternal spacetime, which I believe is the conclusion of most scientists today, then a God did not create either space or time, and if space and time are eternal, then what need is there to posit the existence of a creator?

[JimL]

God is a spirit. Part of the spiritual world.

Magellan

Gods nature doesn't factor in to the problem. Be he immaterial or material, you can't say that he existed "before" his creation, unless there was a before, and a before implies the existence of "time" before.

[Cow Poke]

I hate these threads that make my head hurt and people talk about stuff that is untalkaboutable.

Here is a picture of two ducks wearing sunglasses.

Two_Ducks.jpg

Is NOBODY ELSE grasping the cosmic significance of THIS POST! For cryin' out loud... Look at the duck on the LEFT!