converting

[Tanakh Keeper]

ahh well some of those comments were mean and hateful . I don't send all day on the internet and comb through what I type to make others like me more or value my opinions more. Well I actually have college degree christian studies I am very aware of various stand points and beliefs. Was just posting here becuase I thought there would be people of the jewish faith to discuss things not argue why I have changed my beliefs on jesus lol or how my typing relates to my ability to research. Think before you are mean to others then try and share about why your belief in jesus is correct. All the helpful comments were definetly appreciated. Thank you.

On the whole, Christians don't like it when others don't share their beliefs. And yes, they can get mean about it. They regard it as doing you a favor.

I'm the only adherent of Judaism posting in this thread. If you have further questions about Judaism and don't want incorrect information from Christians, then send me a PM (private message).

[Soyeong]

On the whole, Christians don't like it when others don't share their beliefs. And yes, they can get mean about it. They regard it as doing you a favor.

I don't think your generalizations get anywhere close to being on the whole, and this site caters to a segment of Christians (or anyone else) who enjoy discussing/debating religious (or other) topics through means of a forum, so it is not representative of Christians on the whole either. If you post on a site where people are interested in discussing these topics, then it is reasonable to expect them to want to discuss your posts.

There is also far from universal agreement about the use of riposte. Tough love is telling people what they need to hear, but not necessarily what they want to hear, because you care about them enough to tell them the truth, which may appear mean, but is actually doing them a favor. Unfortunately, there also such a thing as using tough love as an excuse to be mean. I don't think RG was being hateful, but I do think RG went over the top in response to a new poster.

I'm the only adherent of Judaism posting in this thread. If you have further questions about Judaism and don't want incorrect information from Christians, then send me a PM (private message).

If our information is incorrect, then by all means, feel free to correct it.

[Rational Gaze]

On the whole, Christians don't like it when others don't share their beliefs.

I don't mind people not sharing my beliefs. I do mind, however, when people get basic facts wrong, vis a vis the pagan copycat theory. It's not my fault if other people have a poor foundation for their beliefs.

If you have further questions about Judaism and don't want incorrect information

That's a rather ironic statement given that you earlier advocated universalism.

[Rational Gaze]

but I do think RG went over the top in response to a new poster.

Permit me to disagree. I was actually trying to be as nice as humanly possible, whilst simultaneously correcting raynin's palpable and egregious errors.

[Rational Gaze]

try and share about why your belief in jesus is correct.

1. Jesus claimed to be God.
2. Jesus was later resurrected from the dead by the God of Israel.
3. Thus, Jesus' ministry and claims were vindicated.
4. Thus, Christianity is true.

If you, or maybe even Tanakh Keeper, want to debate these points, then you can do so here, or feel free to start another thread specifically on this issue of you think such a debate here would be too distracting.

[lilpixieofterror]

On the whole, Christians don't like it when others don't share their beliefs. And yes, they can get mean about it. They regard it as doing you a favor.

Please drop the martyr complex for a second and ask yourself if the Jesus copycat argument is even a valid one to use to start with.

[shunyadragon]

. . . It sounds like you’re asking legitimate questions. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it will be opened to you.

From the perspective of the diversity of beliefs of the world the result of, 'Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it will be opened to you.' is that different people will often find something different, and most people find what reflects their culture and peer group they chose.

Actually her objections are sincere and real, especially if you consider Christianity the only choice, but is Judaism the only other possible choice. In terms of the universal spiritual nature of humanity can any one ancient religion answer the questions of what is the spiritual nature of humanity.

When looking for spiritual shoes, the ones that frrl comfortable and fit are likely the wrong shoes.

[John D. Brey]

From the perspective of the diversity of beliefs of the world the result of, 'Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it will be opened to you.' is that different people will often find something different, and most people find what reflects their culture and peer group they chose.

Actually her objections are sincere and real, especially if you consider Christianity the only choice, but is Judaism the only other possible choice. In terms of the universal spiritual nature of humanity can any one ancient religion answer the questions of what is the spiritual nature of humanity.

After reading her reasons for doubting Jesus, it appeared to me that she is very early on in her journey. I composed some ideas about what she said, but realized that since she wants information on Judaism, Tanakh Keeper is best equipped to lead her on this phase of her journey.

[shunyadragon]

After reading her reasons for doubting Jesus, it appeared to me that she is very early on in her journey. I composed some ideas about what she said, but realized that since she wants information on Judaism, Tanakh Keeper is best equipped to lead her on this phase of her journey.

I consider this ok, but your 'Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it will be opened to you.' did not indicate that you were leaving this up to Tanakh Keeper.

Motivation of one's search, and whose door one knocks is always an issue in the spiritual quest.

[John D. Brey]

Originally posted by John D. Brey
After reading her reasons for doubting Jesus, it appeared to me that she is very early on in her journey. I composed some ideas about what she said, but realized that since she wants information on Judaism, Tanakh Keeper is best equipped to lead her on this phase of her journey.

I consider this ok, but your 'Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it will be opened to you.' did not indicate that you were leaving this up to Tanakh Keeper. . .Motivation of one's search, and whose door one knocks is always an issue in the spiritual quest.

. . . Actually, I was being cheeky. She had decided that Jesus wasn’t the truth and the life that she once thought he was, so I quote Jesus to send her on her journey away from Jesus.

[Christian2]

I have no problem answering questions or discussing anything, as far as thining that Jesus is flawed that began about a year ago...when I really began to do my digging. The first thing for me to question was the practice of christians celebrating Christmas and easter. Christians will openly admit Jesus was not born on christmas, or risen on easter. So then I began to think Jehovah's witness had the right idea etc. Further research showed me that those holidays were made to reflect pagan holidays, xmas trees christanity's very own idol that we put up every year and try to say its about jesus. I stopped celebrating holidays like that except when forced to due to family obligations. Further investigation showed that Jesus and horus were extremely similar

It's true that we do not know when Jesus was born.

The New Testament provides no precise information concerning the year of Jesus' birth. A fixed point from which to start is the fact that Jesus was born before the death of Herod the Great. According to Matthew 2:1-9, Herod was troubled by the arrival of the Wise Men asking where the king of the Jews had been born. From Josephus we learn that Herod died on or before Passover, A.U.C. 750 (that is, on or before April 4, 4 B.C.). How long before this date Jesus was born is not known. Matthew and Luke tell of certain events that occurred between his birth and Herod's death, including the presentation at the temple 40 days after his birth, the visit of the Wise Men, the flight into Egypt, and the murder of the male children in Bethlehem. Whatever view is taken of the order of these events they can scarcely have occupied less than 2 or 3 months. Therefore the birth of Jesus took place no later than January of 4 B.C. or December 5 B.C., and it may have occurred up to 2 years earlier, although this is highly doubtful.

The custom of celebrating Jesus' birth on December 25th began in the 3rd or 4th century. It is questionable whether his birth was celebrated before that time, although we do know that the coming of the Wise Men was being celebrated on January 6 (Epiphany). The reason(s) for designating December 25th, as Jesus' birthday is not known.

Some argue that the date was chosen because it was the date for the pagan celebration Dies Solis Invicti (Day of the Invincible Sun). This celebration honored the sun god. If this were true, the reason(s) would have been (1) December 25th is within the reasonable window of dates (between Dec. 5 & Jan. of the year 34 B.C.); (2) it would have provided Christians an alternative festival in place of the one held in honor of the sun god, which was associated with the pagan Mithra religion.

Isaiah 7:14 "The Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Immanuel." This was no ordinary name, for this was no ordinary child. Immanuel means "God with us." Therefore the child's name signified who the child was; this child was "God with us."

We celebrate Christmas and the birth of Jesus because this day represents the promise and hope that God gave to all people on the face of the earth that day.

Further investigation showed that Jesus and horus were extremely similar. to similar....errily similar. coincidence? I was whorshiping a "demi" god...herculces style. Sounds stupid when put that way.

You will find similarities in all religions. Look for the differences. Here are a couple of articles that might help you.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Pagan/index.html

http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jes...ilarities.html

Also after reading some interesting articles reflecting that Jewish people have always read the hebrew scriptures first, and then the new testament had to prove its validity through the hebrew bible. Not the other way around which is how christians are taught. Matter of fact we are taught to skip reading the old testment and go straight to the "roman road"

I have never been taught what you said you were taught. We read Scriptures from the OT every Sunday and we study the OT in Bible Study classes.

When you try to proof the new testament through the hebrew scriptures you realize how invalid they really are. There are two verses in the hebrew scripture that really sold me. There were other things but the two that really did and if you can answer them I would interested to hear your response. 1. God abhorrs human sacrafice especially the sacrafice of the sons. THIS makes no sense when trying to add jesus to the mix. It makes God contradict him self...which well I don't believe.

God abhors children being sacrificed. Jesus was not a child and He went willingly to the cross. He didn't kill Himself. He didn't nail Himself to the cross; He didn't thrust a spear in His own chest.

There is only one Being who we sin against and that is God. Only God can save us and I believe He did via the cross.

2. Each man will pay for his own sin according to what he has done.

Yes, we are responsible for our sins because we are all sinners.

Again? what? how then can jesus pay the sacrafice for all then? and why would god sacrafice his own son when he hates it. There are many more arguments out there but those were my reasons. Not mention he didn't do anything he was supposed to have done...

Answered above.

The Bible says:

Genesis 8:21, "Never again will I doom the earth because of man, since the devisings of man's mind are evil from his youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living being as I have done."

Jeremiah 13:23, "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil."

Jeremiah 17:9, "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"

Jeremiah 5:1, the Lord said to his faithful prophet, "Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem, look around and consider, search through her squares. If you can find but one person who deals honestly and seeks the truth, I will forgive this city." But Jeremiah could not find even one godly person.

Psalm.58:3: "the wicked go astray from the womb, they err from their birth speaking lies."

Ecclesiastes 7: 20. For there is no righteous man on earth who does good and sins not.

So where does this leave us? Lost in our sins.

[Christian2]

On the whole, Christians don't like it when others don't share their beliefs. And yes, they can get mean about it. They regard it as doing you a favor.

My Jewish doctor knows I speak with Jews on discussion boards. He advised me to stay away from Orthodox Jews because some of them can be really mean. LOL

[DenaNechama]

Raynin, I would encourage you to convert because you want to be a Jew, you want to join the Jewish people and you are willing to commit to Judaism for the rest of your life - not because you believe Christianity is wrong. There are billions of people who don't believe in Christianity. They don't have to become Jews.

Now that being said, once you've found a Rabbi, he/she should be able guide you pretty well on each step. For kashrut I recommend How to Keep Kosher by Lise Stern. I also recommend How to Run a Traditionally Jewish Household by Blu Greenberg.

[DenaNechama]

My Jewish doctor knows I speak with Jews on discussion boards. He advised me to stay away from Orthodox Jews because some of them can be really mean. LOL

Your doctor shouldn't say such things. If he thinks it, he should keep it to himself.

[Soyeong]

Hello and welcome to TWeb.

Your doctor shouldn't say such things. If he thinks it, he should keep it to himself.

Christian2's response was nothing more than tongue-in-cheek to what Tanakh Keeper said. If you can be honest, then you can see that both religions have members who can be mean.