What has the Father done in LDS theology

[Cow Poke]

Only if you consider directing and teaching the Lord what he knows and does as being uninvolved. Regarding Other kingdoms, you are taking the phrase, "ALL THINGS" way to literally.

Just for grins, 141, because I was bored, I used your methodology to search for the English phrase "all things" in the Bible, and, so far, in the OT, EVERY INSTANCE of "all things" was translated from the Hebrew "Kol"....

3605. kol, kole; or (Jer. 33 : 8)` kowl, kole; from H3634; prop. the whole; hence all, any or every (in the sing. only, but often in a plur. sense):--(in) all (manner, [ye]), altogether, any (manner), enough, every (one, place, thing), howsoever, as many as, [no-] thing, ought, whatsoever, (the) whole, whoso (-ever).

Perhaps you can give an example, just for grins, where "all things" does not actually mean "all things". But remember, context is key!

[onefour1]

Now you are starting to see it my way. CONTEXT is the key!! All things does not mean all things in all of eternity in all its usage.

[onefour1]

And not all usages define the context clearly. But some verses that don't define the context would be absurd if you assumed them to mean all things that ever will or have existed in eternity. Take for example:

Case in point 1Peter 4:7
7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Now if I were to take this verse as literal as you folks do, all of eternity will come to an end. God would come to an end. existence would come to an end. Goodness will come to an end. etc. etc. etc.

Another case in point:

Acts 2:44
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

Now if we were to take this too literal, then all the members had their wives in common and were committing adultery.

Another case in point:

John 4:29
29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

Do you think that Christ told this person about every time he relieved himself or about every burp and snore that he ever did? I personally don't think so. I don't think he went over every breath of air he inhaled or every growth moment of each cell of his body.

Another case in point:

Colossians 3:20
20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

Now if a parent were evil and asked their kids to do something against God, do you really think the Lord wishes children to obey their parents in all things?

Anything can have a context whether explicitly stated or not. LDS believe that even though all things within God's own kingdom were created through his Son, The Father directed the creation and taught his Son to be what he is today. We do not believe in exnihilo creationism either.

[Cow Poke]

Now you are starting to see it my way. CONTEXT is the key!! All things does not mean all things in all of eternity in all its usage.

Well, you have proven you can be cute, but here's what you said....

But if you search the bible, you will see that the term "all things" is often not taken as literal as you would like it to be.

I asked for some examples. I showed you that, at least in the OT, "all things" ALWAYS comes from the Hebrew "kol".... so please show me your exceptions IN CONTEXT.

[Cow Poke]

And not all usages define the context clearly.

I don't think you understand "context", because the usage is not SUPPOSED to define the context --- it's the other way around. The CONTEXT defines or clarifies the usage.

[nrajeff]

He was very clear about saying there were no other Gods and that he created everything ALONE.

It seems to appear to be clear, from the post-Josiah version of the Torah.

That means he was lying if the LDS is correct.

False. It does not necessarily mean that.

Or at the very least, misleading the Israelites with deceptive wording.

According to some scholars, the changes that were made to Israel's theology--from monolatrist to strict monotheist--were probably made not to mislead Israel, but to simplify their beliefs and keep them from wandering after false or unauthorized gods.

[Sparko]

Now you are starting to see it my way. CONTEXT is the key!! All things does not mean all things in all of eternity in all its usage.

Context doesn't mean using random pieces of scripture to come up with some patchwork interpretation that agrees with you while ignoring plain scripture, 141.

[Sparko]

It seems to appear to be clear, from the post-Josiah version of the Torah.


False. It does not necessarily mean that.


According to some scholars, the changes that were made to Israel's theology--from monolatrist to strict monotheist--were probably made not to mislead Israel, but to simplify their beliefs and keep them from wandering after false or unauthorized gods.

That's pretty sad, Jeff. Appealing to non-existent evidence and imaginary "what-ifs" to keep from accepting scripture at it's face value, in context.

The LDS version of Jehovah was a liar, and the Father was a lazy bum who didn't do anything. That is inescapable given your doctrines compared to the actual scriptures.

[Cerebrum123]

Only if you consider directing and teaching the Lord what he knows and does as being uninvolved. Regarding Other kingdoms, you are taking the phrase, "ALL THINGS" way to literally. If Jesus created all things literally, then he would have created God the Father as well as himself. Already you need to make exceptions. But if you search the bible, you will see that the term "all things" is often not taken as literal as you would like it to be.

Actually, I was talking not about "all things"(don't know where you got that one from), but about the merism in Genesis that states that God made the "heavens and the earth", and this would mean the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Also, once you take into the accounts that Jesus was the one creating people, then you still have a problem, since that job is supposed to belong to God the Father in LDS views.

LDS believe that the verses you refer to are in reference to us on this earth and not to be applied to all eternity.

There is EVERY reason to believe that that DOES refer to ALL ETERNITY, but you apparently can't understand that.

[nrajeff]

That's pretty sad, Jeff.

• Edited by a Moderator •

Appealing to non-existent evidence

Last time I checked, Frank E. Eakin, Jr, Mark S. Smith, Robert Wright, and Margaret Barker, and their research, were existent. Maybe your feelings of non-existence are premature.

Moderated By: rogue06

Let's not complain about moderation in inappropriate places.

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publically complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

[Bill the Cat]

Margaret Barker again???

[nrajeff]

Margaret Barker again???

She, AND her research, really do exist, by all accounts. Sorry to have to break the news to you.

[Sparko]

She, AND her research, really do exist, by all accounts. Sorry to have to break the news to you.

I was referring to your comment that "it appears..." and then suggesting that it doesn't really mean that because of some imaginary "what if" of yours.

Jeff, if you dislike this site so much, and the people here, then why are you still posting? Who has you chained to theologyweb? You don't have to be so bitter, you can go somewhere else and relieve yourself of all the stress of having to put up with us.

[Bill the Cat]

She, AND her research, really do exist, by all accounts. Sorry to have to break the news to you.

Research...

[nrajeff]

Research...

If you have published peer-reviewed research that refutes hers, I suspect that at least some of the readers here would be interested in comparing yours with hers.

And don't forget to refute

The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel (Biblical Resource Series) [Paperback] by Mark S. Smith