"Citizens for Objective Public Education Inc"? Hah!

[Mandalorious]

In a letter I just got from the National Center for Science Education, they talk about the Kansas "Next Generation Science
Standards" presentations that were held on June 12, 2012.

Here's some of what that letter talked about:

The Associated Press (June 13, 2012) reports that Ken Willard, a member of the board, described the draft as "flawed" and "distributed a nine-page letter criticizing the draft multistate standards from the group Citizens for Objective Public Education Inc., which lists officers in Florida and Kansas. The letter suggested that the draft standards ignore evidence against evolution, don't respect religious diversity, and promote secular humanism, which precludes God or
another supreme being in considering how the universe works."

Uh huh. "doesn't respect religious diversity". What does "religious diversity" mean, anyway? Well, with a name like Citizens for Objective Public Education Inc it couldn't possibly be just a front for say, a christian young earth creationist group, could it? After all, as every creationist organization out there has to have their members swear by a Statement of Faith, there is no way that any of those people would be so dishonest as to pretend to be "objective", would they?

But Citizens for Objective Public Education is not exactly a well-known or a well-established group; its vice president Anne Lassey told the Associated Press that it was founded only in March 2012. Lassey is the wife of Greg Lassey, who was one of the authors of the so-called minority report of the committee that revised Kansas's state science standards in 2005; the report systematically deprecated the scientific status of evolution. The group's president, Jorge Fernandez, is a self-proclaimed young-earth creationist, with publications to his credit in Journal of Creation and on the True.Origin Archive website. The letter claimed that Citizens for Objective Public Education represents "children, parents and taxpayers who share our views"; Lassey told the Associated Press that the group has members across the nation.

Yep. That's the leader of the group who's complaining about a lack of "religious diversity"! As for "ignoring evidence"? Please...has anyone truly forgotten Jorge's dishonest ignoring of evidence* himself?

Yep. They same guy who writes for the "Journal of Creation" which is published by Creation Ministries International (who has the statement of faith that I linked to earlier) is head of a group called Citizens for Objective Public Education. So, I guess they are that dishonest after all.

So when they can't back up their case by evidence, use politics instead!


*The original thread where that topic appeared seems to be gone now, so I posted the Talk Origin discussion of Jorge's article plus the newer thread that deals with it here.

I know I haven't posted here in a while (and my original name is gone) so I just went with an example that I knew of...I know that those who've been posting here since I left will have many, many more such examples of Jorge's behavior

[Tiggy]

Phank already stated a thread on this below.

The president of "Citizens for Objective Public Education Inc" is our own fountain of "honest" YEC scientific understanding Jorge Fernandez.

That's really all you need to know to accurately assess their integrity.

- T

[OmniSkeptical]

It would be better for them to develop a better a better scientific understanding, and challenge Darwinism in class, then prepare to use the law against their opponnents in bad taste. That way they can avoid such lame staments such as mutations are always harmful, and evolution is not biological adaptation.

[Cerebrum123]

It would be better for them to develop a better a better scientific understanding, and challenge Darwinism in class, then prepare to use the law against their opponnents in bad taste. That way they can avoid such lame staments such as mutations are always harmful, and evolution is not biological adaptation.

I'm a YEC, and I actually agree with you(for the most part anyway). Better for the kids to be taught how to think, than WHAT to think(which I saw FAR too much of during my years in the public school system). Making laws like this is just not the way to go, but I am certainly in favor of kids learning MORE about evolution.

[rogue06]

I'm a YEC, and I actually agree with you(for the most part anyway). Better for the kids to be taught how to think, than WHAT to think(which I saw FAR too much of during my years in the public school system). Making laws like this is just not the way to go, but I am certainly in favor of kids learning MORE about evolution.

I can agree with that. But recycling a list of worn out and terminally rebutted PRATTs isn't learning about evolution and from what I've been able to ascertain that is pretty much what COPE offered.

[Jorge]

I'm a YEC, and I actually agree with you(for the most part anyway). Better for the kids to be taught how to think, than WHAT to think(which I saw FAR too much of during my years in the public school system). Making laws like this is just not the way to go, but I am certainly in favor of kids learning MORE about evolution.

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To the least three posts (prior to this one) : wrong ... wronger ... wrongest!

Sorry that I cannot elaborate at this time ... perhaps later.

Jorge

[rogue06]

For those interested Jorge has posted the contents of the letter in three posts starting HERE

[phank]

And yes, the letter consists exactly of "a list of worn out and terminally rebutted PRATTs" - they are even numbered!

[Cerebrum123]

I can agree with that. But recycling a list of worn out and terminally rebutted PRATTs isn't learning about evolution and from what I've been able to ascertain that is pretty much what COPE offered.

I was basically saying that as far as this situation goes, I am on your side. Did, I miss something?

[rogue06]

I was basically saying that as far as this situation goes, I am on your side. Did, I miss something?

No. I was agreeing with you but making clear what I meant by learning about evolution by showing what wasn't learning about evolution. If that makes sense.

[Cerebrum123]

No. I was agreeing with you but making clear what I meant by learning about evolution by showing what wasn't learning about evolution. If that makes sense.

Ok, now I understand.

[OmniSkeptical]

No. I was agreeing with you but making clear what I meant by learning about evolution by showing what wasn't learning about evolution. If that makes sense.

I don't know if by that you mean that the common version of evolution must be taught at all costs. I only meant to say the biologist had better know mutation by adaptation and any possible forms of gene splicing. While the teacher might be suitably required to teach Darwinism, I don't think he needs to agree with it. But heh, Creationists are not a cautious lot; they will just use the law until the law turns against them.

[lucaspa]

Has anyone seen the text of the letter? I'd like to see their arguments that evolution is "secular humanism".

[KingsGambit]

This Kansas state school board election is getting even weirder. It turns out that one of the challengers who opposes evolution is affiliated with Westboro Baptist Church. http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/24...d-hopeful.html

Though I am openly theistic evolution and do think evolution should be taught in the school, I would like to urge all people who are on my side in this issue to avoid painting the evolution opponents with this brush. There is no evidence that this candidate is affiliated with any of the interest groups we've discussed here, and as a Kansas resident, I can attest that people from Westboro perennially run in state/local elections (and get almost no votes).

[Jorge]

I can agree with that. But recycling a list of worn out and terminally rebutted PRATTs isn't learning about evolution and from what I've been able to ascertain that is pretty much what COPE offered.

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Just one word : R - I - D - I - C - U - L - O - U - S !!!

Jorge