Did Mormons really strike the first blow?

[Cow Poke]

We may well mean the same thing, but your statement can be taken otherwise; it implies that salvation is fully accomplished before one lives for Jesus rather than continuing as one does so.

If you were "saved" ("am" saved) then killed in a car accident immediately thereafter, would you go to heaven?

[One Bad Pig]

Uh, because I am perhaps the only honest hypocrite here.

That's a contradiction in terms.

The only one who dares to point out that this place is FULL of hypocrites.

<Sarcasm>

Yeah, casting unqualified and unsupported aspersions on a nebulous group of opponents takes real guts.

This is a fair warning to those sarcastically impaired the preceding text was written in jest.

Prove me wrong by admitting that you are a hypocrite, too.

Why should I admit that? I'm not complaining that insults shouldn't be used while simultaneously hurling them myself. There are times when an insult is well-deserved, and can be used to cut through the fog of insinuations. On the other hand, returning insult for insult merely because one feels stung is generally counterproductive.

By the way--if you actually believe that this plance is becoming MORE and MORE edifying, then do you really have have grounds for your complaining?

I don't believe that.

Then you are a rara avis here. How many threads that are started by anti-LDS people REALLY have "edification regarding the LDS faith" mas their raison d'etre?

More than you seem to think. Part of edification is probing weak points.

It's hard to educate people while they're throwing stones at you. It's also hard to educate people who really aren't here to be educated as much as they're here to make sport of ridiculing people who have different beliefs.

Metaphorical stones can be ignored. You don't have to respond to them. Further, no one as far as I can tell is here to ridicule Mormons because they have different beliefs. If there were, then ke7jx, for example, would not feel welcome. What is mocked is patent attempts to dodge questions, irrational defenses of different beliefs, and self-righteous hypocrisy. One response to such mockery would be to seek to provide answers to questions asked, find better defenses, and display humility. I don't see that happen too often around here, though.

[One Bad Pig]

If you were "saved" ("am" saved) then killed in a car accident immediately thereafter, would you go to heaven?

Your question still contains the built-in implication that salvation is a point-in-time event. If you are killed immediately after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and repenting, then you would go to heaven. Orthodoxy views salvation as a process continuing into eternity, although it is irreversible after death; while there will be no sin, we as created beings will never attain complete knowledge of the Uncreated, Eternal God.

[Cerebrum123]

Your question still contains the built-in implication that salvation is a point-in-time event. If you are killed immediately after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and repenting, then you would go to heaven. Orthodoxy views salvation as a process continuing into eternity, although it is irreversible after death; while there will be no sin, we as created beings will never attain complete knowledge of the Uncreated, Eternal God.

More like the implication that it starts at one point in time, and that after death, can't be reversed. At least, that's how it seemed to me that he was saying.

[Sparko]

Your question still contains the built-in implication that salvation is a point-in-time event. If you are killed immediately after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and repenting, then you would go to heaven. Orthodoxy views salvation as a process continuing into eternity, although it is irreversible after death; while there will be no sin, we as created beings will never attain complete knowledge of the Uncreated, Eternal God.

Wouldn't that be sanctification you are talking about and not salvation?

[nrajeff]

You aren't on the right side...

Studies show that over 90% of people on the wrong side, say that about people with whom they disagree. : )

When Latter Day Saints use the term salvation they are almost always referring to exaltation. Whereas, most people of other denominations are almost always referring to justification when they use the word "saved".

So where James says that JUSTIFICATION is not by faith alone, what do most people of other denominations say about what James said, if they are equating justification with salvation?

So, which LDS definition of "saved" are you referring to when you mention LDS soteriology, Jeff?

The salvation that goes beyond the mere resurrection that all humans are already guaranteed. The salvation that is not just being saved from a state of disembodied spirit, but of being saved from the eternal consequences of one's unremitted sins. Salvation from being eternally separated from the presence of God and/or His Son.

Any other questions?

[nrajeff]

If you could "educate" me on why Joseph Smith is NOT a false prophet, and why the BoM is NOT a work of fiction, Jeff...

There are some things that only God, working through His Holy Spirit, can do. If you are honestly here to learn why Joseph Smith and the BoM are what they claimed to be, then perhaps you should ask the One who is able to grant your request instead of denizens of this forum.

[Cow Poke]

Your question still contains the built-in implication that salvation is a point-in-time event.

It "begins" somewhere.

If you are killed immediately after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and repenting, then you would go to heaven.

Amen!

Orthodoxy views salvation as a process continuing into eternity, although it is irreversible after death; while there will be no sin, we as created beings will never attain complete knowledge of the Uncreated, Eternal God.

You sure have a complicated way of saying the same thing!

[Cow Poke]

There are some things that only God, working through His Holy Spirit, can do.

And he has convinced me that Joseph Smith was a fraud, and the BoM is a work of fiction.

If you are honestly here to learn why Joseph Smith and the BoM are what they claimed to be, then perhaps you should ask the One who is able to grant your request instead of denizens of this forum.

I did. He answered. Until such a time as I discover I was wrong, I will continue to stand against the false teachings of a false prophet. You, in particular, help to convince me that I was/am right.

[One Bad Pig]

Wouldn't that be sanctification you are talking about and not salvation?

Sanctification is a part of salvation.

[One Bad Pig]

Studies show that over 90% of people on the wrong side, say that about people with whom they disagree. : )

48.955% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[Sparko]

48.955% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Abraham Lincoln said that.

[Cow Poke]

Abraham Lincoln said that.

Shortly after inventing the internetz.

[ke7ejx]

Shortly after inventing the internetz.

[Cow Poke]

No, he was assassinated before he went crazy.