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Thread: What Jesus Really Meant (IMO)

  1. #21
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsun View Post
    You reply to "This may seem radical, but what if Jesus meant exactly what He said?" Sparko, to wit:



    Reminded me of parable I rephrased on the books I wrote, to wit:

    "There is an excellent Hindu parable about a great seer who, out of the goodness of his heart, informed birds of all species about a terrible bird-catcher and warned them to beware because, sooner or later, the bird-catcher was bound to try and catch them. Not really up to the task of keeping close track of and publicly declaring the many clever ways in which the bird-catcher dis*guised himself, fooling themselves and others that they were adequately doing their duty, the parrots in the group diligently ‘served’ to pass on the warning, “Watch out for the bird-catcher,” from generation to generation. The wily bird-catcher found this quite to his liking since all he had to do was set up his nets and yell “I see the bird-catcher coming!” while pointing away from them. Birds galore would then fly right into his trap. Needless to say, instead of preying upon the parrots themselves, the bird-catcher would place those he caught in prominence positions to make sure that other birds would hear their ‘message’."

    The 'news', presenting supposed facts, sure gets convoluted!
    so you are saying that you are twisting the words of Jesus to catch more birds?

  2. Amen Jedidiah, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  3. #22
    Undergraduate davidsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    so you are saying that you are twisting the words of Jesus to catch more birds?
    No. Following the parable in question, I said: "(Note: even this parable, but of course minus the gist of the last sentence, has been used to ‘catch’ flocks gullible enough to think that a person telling such a wise story must necessarily be doing so to ‘save’ them.)
    P.S. I am presenting my interpretation (and claiming it to be no more and no less) of the words of Jesus as presented in the King James translation. Methinks, the notion that I am 'twisting' them is your ('twisted'? ) idea.

  4. #23
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsun View Post
    No. Following the parable in question, I said: "(Note: even this parable, but of course minus the gist of the last sentence, has been used to ‘catch’ flocks gullible enough to think that a person telling such a wise story must necessarily be doing so to ‘save’ them.)
    P.S. I am presenting my interpretation (and claiming it to be no more and no less) of the words of Jesus as presented in the King James translation. Methinks, the notion that I am 'twisting' them is your ('twisted'? )

    idea.
    oh. so you are saying that JESUS was the bird catcher who was tricking people then?

  5. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  6. #24
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsun View Post
    Thanking everyone for their responses, and picking up at the bottom of and continuing the text of my treatise (from post #8):

    What anyone thinks Jesus really meant when he used such and related phrases and why he or she imagines he chose to speak of God as ‘the Father’ and himself as ‘the Son’ (of said Father) will, of course, depend on his or her personal apprehension and understanding of metaphysical realities and ‘sense’ of what the mind-and-heart sets of the people around Jesus were like at the time. My own conclusions in this regard, which I proffer for consideration and contemplation, are that he used ‘the Father’ to reference the progenitive Source (hence, ‘the Creator’) of all existential being, and ‘the Son’ to reference the totality of said Creator’s Creation (d/b/a Creativity), in other words the Entity of Life as It exists and continues to express Itself in Being.

    Why did he choose to do so? I think because the people around him were much more likely to meaningfully and emotionally relate to what such Father and Son ‘figures’ symbolically represented and, consequently, pragmatically understand the nature of the relationship between said existential realities to functionally be as a result of having personally experienced parents and the blessings as well as the vicissitudes of being familial offspring themselves, more so at least than if he had referenced and spoken about such realities in abstract philosophical terms.

    Just imagine the silently questioning, “What the heck is this guy talking about?” blank stares that would be on the faces of people in a (hypothetical) movie crowd-scene wherein Deepak Chopra (one of today’s preeminent metaphysicians), after being science-fictionally transported back to Jesus’ time and setting, verbalized the same sorts of things that folks presently throng around him to hear: “Pure consciousness is your ground state and it is a field of infinite possibilities!” and “The field is organizing everything in creation: the movement of galaxies, the movement of stars, the rotation of the earth, the cycles of the seasons, the biological rhythms of our bodies, birds migrating at the right season to the right place, fish returning to their spawning grounds, the biological rhythms of nature as found in flowers, vegetation, and animals. It is literally a field of infinite organizing power. It can do an infinite number of things all at the same time and then correlate them with each other;” for instance.

    And contrast this with what you imagine the people who were actually there (around Jesus) then must have thought and felt on hearing him preach things like: “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?” (Matthew 7:7-11)

    Even in today’s world, I submit, those who haven’t intelligently grasped the implications of the postulates and research findings of Quantum Physics to the degree necessary to meaningfully comprehend the way in which such particle-wave, vibrating matter-energy concept based reality-paradigm ‘explains’ why and how and things ‘manifest’ – and, because only a small fraction of our population is capable of appreciating such abstractions, this references most folks on the planet at present – are much more likely to mentally and emotionally ‘groove’ with and consequently behaviorally operate in a positively functional, holistically co-relative manner using Jesus’ archetypal parent↔offspring schemata.

    Holistically co-relative insofar as they may personally be so oriented and inclined, that is. As I’m sure you know, the choices people make tend to be unsalutary and counterproductive to whatever degree their thoughts and emotions continue, as a result of conditioning and habituation, to stem from immediate personal-gratification seeking selfishness. This applies, to one degree or another, to every soul that is still in the process of maturing (spiritually speaking), which pretty much references everyone born on the planet, while still biologically young at least, because souls that have already matured, or ‘ripened’, to the point of becoming ‘perfectly’ (so to speak) holistic really have nothing more to learn and developmentally accomplish by way of incarnating as a personal-self locus in the context of a world comprised of sensorially separate nodes of Life, such as ours – except perhaps in exceptional cases, to munificently articulate the range of choices at hand and alert audiences to the consequences thereof as well as, by leading exemplary lives in said regards themselves, to catalytically spark the maturational ‘fruition’ of others at critical, ‘make or break’ junctures in history wherein those involved must either participatorily move ‘forward’ (in the context of Life’s dynamically evolutionary stream) by choosing to transcending selfish instincts and becoming more integrally related to others or spiritually regress and possibly even disintegrate (i.e. completely lose soulful coherency in relation to Life) if they ‘fail’ to do so.
    Oh! So you are ? Why didn't you just say so?

    You fit right in.

  7. #25
    Undergraduate davidsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    oh. so you are saying that JESUS was the bird catcher who was tricking people then?
    No. The people who interpret his teachings literally, without really undertstanding them, are the 'parrots' - who enlist more 'parrots' and catch and exploit even 'dumber' 'birds' with their help - are the ones doing that 'tricking'. In my book, Godspeak 2000 (available as a free download from my website), I referenced the same kind of phenomenon in relation to astrology/astrologers, by saying "Many who misguidedly follow traces of truth into the labyrinths of such speculation therefore get wrapped up in webs of self-sustaining illusion and become part of a circle of followers following followers, wherein the blind mislead the blind, unknowingly. And they then lose sight of vital sources of influence and overlook truly germane relationships—those involving parents, partners, progeny, fellow species members and members of fellow species."

    Stay tuned for additional aspects of my ex-plain-ation re what historically became 'Christianity' as a phenomenon.
    Last edited by davidsun; 07-18-2017 at 01:52 AM.

  8. #26
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsun View Post
    No. The people who interpret his teachings literally, without really undertstanding them, are the 'parrots' - who enlist more 'parrots' and catch and exploit even 'dumber' 'birds' with their help - are the ones doing that 'tricking'. In my book, Godspeak 2000 (available as a free download from my website), I referenced the same kind of phenomenon in relation to astrology/astrologers, by saying "Many who misguidedly follow traces of truth into the labyrinths of such speculation therefore get wrapped up in webs of self-sustaining illusion and become part of a circle of followers following followers, wherein the blind mislead the blind, unknowingly. And they then lose sight of vital sources of influence and overlook truly germane relationships—those involving parents, partners, progeny, fellow species members and members of fellow species."

    Stay tuned for additional aspects of my ex-plain-ation re what historically became 'Christianity' as a phenomenon.
    Nobody thinks Jesus was speaking literally when he was telling parables. But his meaning was pretty clear, not some esoteric nonsense that took 2000 years until someone like you to come along and figure it out. You are not that special Dave. You are nuts.

    Let's discuss one and see. Bring forth a parable of Jesus that you claim you know what he was really saying and let's see. Post the parable and your interpretation.

  9. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  10. #27
    Undergraduate davidsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Nobody thinks Jesus was speaking literally when he was telling parables. But his meaning was pretty clear, not some esoteric nonsense that took 2000 years until someone like you to come along and figure it out. You are not that special Dave. You are nuts.

    Let's discuss one and see. Bring forth a parable of Jesus that you claim you know what he was really saying and let's see. Post the parable and your interpretation.
    Yes, I agree that there have been a fair number of folks who have IMO 'correctly' (metaphorically) interpreted and understood) what he meant to communicate by way of his parabolic' sayings, including his speaking of 'God' as being 'his' Father. I don't think I am 'special' in this regard. But relatively few (as far as I know) have attempted to 'set 'the record' straight, so to speak, by speaking of and to 'followers' who accept and buy into 'narrow-minded' 'self-serving' (letter of 'the word', instead of spirit of 'the word') interpretations thereof, just as there are relatively few 'Muslims' who expose and stand up to 'narrow-minded' 'self-serving' interpretations of the thangs Mohammad said - the same being true in my opinion 'in' every 'group' (category) of people in the world, I think - presumably because it suited them to not do so, the result being that people hewing to 'narrow-minded' 'self-serving' interpretations have been 'allowed' to spew and do dastardly 'stuff' to others (in particular) and humanity and our world (in general), in my opinion. Stay tuned for more of my 'metaphorical' interpretations - lets both 'see' if you do or don't acknowledge their validity, shall we?

    Repeating the last couple of paragraphs of the prior excerpt as shared in post #20 (for context) and continuing on from there:

    Edited by a Moderator
    More to come
    Last edited by ke7ejx; 07-18-2017 at 07:58 PM.

  11. #28
    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  12. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  13. #29
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Edited by a Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by davidsun View Post

    More to come
    no 'more to come.' This isn't your blog site. This is a discussion site.

    Either discuss or leave.

    Now present a parable, then give us your interpretation. We can discuss. Don't just keep spamming your book. We unfortunately had to end up banning another member who would not obey the rules and kept spamming his blog.

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  14. Amen Bill the Cat, Jedidiah, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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