Tithing Settlement

[Sparko]

They don't trust us ME, and that is why they won't believe us ME when we I answer their questions. Whether that distrust is deserved, or whether it comes from indoctrination or some other unwarranted prejudice, is hard to say.

As for the decision to remain in the forum or leave, each person must decide on the best course of action. I am seeing less and less value in staying, and more value in spending the time elsewhere.

Fixed it for ya.

We have no problem with most other mormons, Jeff. Mostly just you. You are a pedantic, whining drama queen and a complete jerk, who likes to complain about us "antis" while acting worse than any of us have ever acted toward you.

[Cow Poke]

Nothing, of course. Maybe you're thinking of the Scientologists, who allegedly spy on their members. Normally, I don't look at the end-of-year totals for each member. I print them and hand them to the member, who verifies that I sent his money where he wanted it to go all year long. Then he meets privately with the bishop and says whether the donations he made reflect a tithe, or something less than that.

Jeff... I have backed WAY down from my "suspicion", and you have SUCCESSFULLY proven me wrong in some of my assumptions. Perhaps you can ease back a bit on the defensiveness, and just "discuss", OK?

I have an honest question which I PROMISE is not a trap or trick or "gotcha", OK? If you'd like to discuss it, fine... if not, that's fine too.

When you mention "where he wanted it to go", in regards to gifts, how do you get around the IRS opinion that a "gift" is not a "gift" as long as there are strings attached. Now, FIRST, I fully realize you can ask 3 IRS reps the very same question, and get 4 or 5 different answers. But my understanding has been that it is ONLY a tax deductible gift when the giver attaches no strings whatsoever. After you answer (if you do) I'll explain how we comply with that. Maybe we do the same thing.

During the year, on any given Sunday, a doctor's donations could be one of dozens that we do accounting on. The doctor might donate $10 one week, zero the next 6 weeks, and then $5000 the next. I don't keep a running total in my head of Dr. Johnson's donations. That would be a bigger waste of time than posting here is.

If it's such a big waste of time, Jeff... why do you stay? Are you a glutton for punishment?

The only time I would pay attention to dollar amounts at the end of the year is if the member saw a discrepancy and showed it to me when asking for help reconciling it.

And that makes sense.

I think y'all have used up all your Suspicion Cards now.

Sheeeeeesh, Jeff.. give it a rest... I have asked questions, been shown that I was wrong, and have backed away... give me a break with the "Suspicion Cards". This is what I mean by "persecution complex".... I'm honestly asking honest questions, based on a REAL LIFE situation which I am trying to understand. Just because I oppose you 99.9999731 percent of the time, does NOT mean I'm doing it NOW! (And I will just as much as I choose, thank you!*)




*that was just a touch of drama, for effect!

[nrajeff]

[QUOTE=Sparko;3431632]Fixed bastardized for malicious purposes it for ya.

We have no problem with most other mormons, Jeff.

Okay, then let's test your honesty: Of the following "mormons" who have been or are posters here, which of them comprise this "most" you claim to have NO problem with?

OC---no problem?
Jo---no problem?
Frank---no problem?
141---no problem?
MM---no problem?
Ke7---no problem?
LDS Angel---no problem?

Mostly just you. You are a pedantic, whining drama queen and a complete jerk, who likes to complain about us "antis" while acting worse than any of us have ever acted toward you.

But how can that be, if you were telling the truth when you said that you acted just as bad as me "because it seems to be the only way to teach you" or somesuch? And who was the first in the forum to use the terms whining, freakin jerk, delusional, drama queen, and persecution complex against someone?
a) a pro-LDS person
b) an anti-LDS person

Also, if you are telling the truth that I am the only pro-LDS person you antis have a problem with, then doesn't that actually mean I would be CORRECT if I said that you guys are singling me out for attacks? Meaning that it's NOT just imaginary, not just all in my head, right?

Good stuff to know.

Now, if you're done with the ad homs, is there anything that relates to THE TOPIC of the THREAD that you would like to ask about? Or have all the questions been answered for now?

[Cow Poke]

Okay, then let's test your honesty: Of the following "mormons" who have been or are posters here, which of them comprise this "most" you claim to have NO problem with?

Can I play, please?

OC---no problem? - occasionally, but I really like OC, and believe him to be genuine, albeit misled.
Jo---no problem? - hmmm... not really a problem... I don't think she's in the same pond with the other ducks, but ... not really a problem.
Frank---no problem? - what can I say... the boy is really mixed up, but ... problem? not really
141---no problem? - no problem
MM---no problem? - no problem
Ke7---no problem? - love her to death
LDS Angel---no problem? - no problem - barely know her, though I don't think she appreciates my candor

How did I do, Jeff? And you're missing some... Brother Aardvark... I'll think of others. No Problem!

[Sparko]

Pretty much what CP said, except I would put Jo, Frank and you in the "have problems with" - OC in the "he is frustrating but I still like him" category and no problems with anyone else.

[Cow Poke]

Pretty much what CP said, except I would put Jo, Frank and you in the "have problems with" - OC in the "he is frustrating but I still like him" category and no problems with anyone else.

Yeah, I'd concur with that, except that Jo and Frank, IMO, didn't seem to have the CAPACITY of actual discourse that Jeff displays at times. I think that's what's so frustrating about Jeff -- He CAN engage in thoughtful intellectual interchange when he wants to.

[Cow Poke]

Pretty much what CP said, except I would put Jo, Frank and you in the "have problems with" - OC in the "he is frustrating but I still like him" category and no problems with anyone else.

Didn't you name some others, recently, Sparko? Brother Aardvark and ... weren't there a couple others who have been here that were pretty easy to deal with. Like.. .Brother Aardvark would just flat out say, "yes, that's what I believe" or admit that there's a problem with certain aspects. He seemed to be pretty straight forward and didn't dodge and weave.

[Cerebrum123]

Just be careful, Brain, to not shove those beliefs down our throats...please?

This is a debate site, and I do need to be able to be clear, concise, and honest with my beliefs, right(to the best of my ability anyway)? Stating my beliefs on a forum like this is not the same as shoving them down your throat. Many people here have VERY different views, and debate only really works when you know what the other person is arguing.

[Sparko]

Didn't you name some others, recently, Sparko? Brother Aardvark and ... weren't there a couple others who have been here that were pretty easy to deal with. Like.. .Brother Aardvark would just flat out say, "yes, that's what I believe" or admit that there's a problem with certain aspects. He seemed to be pretty straight forward and didn't dodge and weave.

yep. there are others that have been here that I have gotten along with.

I think what jeff fails to understand is that we can disagree with others without that being "hate" or whatever he thinks it is.

as long as someone tells me honestly what they believe, I have no problems with them personally. I respect that. I will still argue against that belief if I think it is wrong, but then I also expect them to argue against me if they think I am wrong. But when people start "answering the question they should have asked" or playing semantic word games to avoid just saying what they believe, or come up with excuses like "that's not official doctrine, just opinion" whenever they want to deny something, then I don't consider them as honest forum participants. and then I start having problems with them.

[Cow Poke]

Humbled44444 --- he was "no problem", but got his feelings hurt easily. Add him to the "no problem" list!

[Cerebrum123]

[QUOTE=nrajeff;3431748]

Fixed bastardized for malicious purposes it for ya.

Okay, then let's test your honesty: Of the following "mormons" who have been or are posters here, which of them comprise this "most" you claim to have NO problem with?

OC---no problem?
Jo---no problem?
Frank---no problem?
141---no problem?
MM---no problem?
Ke7---no problem?
LDS Angel---no problem?



But how can that be, if you were telling the truth when you said that you acted just as bad as me "because it seems to be the only way to teach you" or somesuch? And who was the first in the forum to use the terms whining, freakin jerk, delusional, drama queen, and persecution complex against someone?
a) a pro-LDS person
b) an anti-LDS person

Also, if you are telling the truth that I am the only pro-LDS person you antis have a problem with, then doesn't that actually mean I would be CORRECT if I said that you guys are singling me out for attacks? Meaning that it's NOT just imaginary, not just all in my head, right?

Good stuff to know.

Now, if you're done with the ad homs, is there anything that relates to THE TOPIC of the THREAD that you would like to ask about? Or have all the questions been answered for now?

And who was the first person in the Mormon forum area that I have seen use a rather disgraceful profane word that begins with the letter B to describe someone else?

[LDSAngel]

Yeah, I'm seeing that. Thanks.



Sounds reasonable.



Do you ever have Ananias and Sapphira in the back of your mind when "reporting" your status?

No, never. I am truthful and honest throughout my daily life and with my tithing, so I don't need to stop and think I have done anything wrong -because I haven't done anything wrong in any part of my life.

Tithing is in the Bible, so why do you have issue with it?

[LDSAngel]

Let's just get one thing straight. I know that Jeff will agree with me on this one.

It is not my job, or Jeff's job, to prove that the LDS Church is true, to anyone. That is the job of the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures which, for us, are The Bible, The Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.

If you want to stay outside of the LDS Church and remain floundering out in the cold then that is entirely your own choice.

[Sparko]

No, never. I am truthful and honest throughout my daily life and with my tithing, so I don't need to stop and think I have done anything wrong -because I haven't done anything wrong in any part of my life.

never? ever? wow.

Tithing is in the Bible, so why do you have issue with it?

So is sacrificing bulls. Why don't you do that?

[Cow Poke]

No, never.

It was a joke. They "declared" their "gift", but lied about it.

I am truthful and honest throughout my daily life and with my tithing, so I don't need to stop and think I have done anything wrong -because I haven't done anything wrong in any part of my life.

You have never sinned? WOW.

Tithing is in the Bible, so why do you have issue with it?

Murder and incest are in the Bible.

And who says I have issues with tithing?

Angel, I think you're taking yourself way too seriously. I have been frank and honest with you, but I have no desire to be rude or disrespectful to you.