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Thread: Your best arguments for: Pret-rib, Mid-trib, Post-Trib

  1. #21
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    You or OBP can correct me but, I think that is amillenialism. They do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign, and that we are now in the "millennia"...therefore there would not be a future 7 year Tribulation. Most Preterists also do not believe in a future 7 year tribulation...they would say that Israel A.D. 66 - A.D. 73 was the Tribulation.
    As far as I can tell, amill was the default position throughout much of church history. Post-mill is a product of the Enlightenment, and suffered a rather serious shock in WW I.
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  2. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
  3. #22
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    What about those of us who are a-trib ? I did hear there was a fifth kind of trib, but I forget the details.
    What does a-trib entail? I've never heard of it. Is the fifth kind the Pre-Wrath view? I'm still pretty firmly in the preterist camp.
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  4. #23
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    What does a-trib entail? I've never heard of it. Is the fifth kind the Pre-Wrath view? I'm still pretty firmly in the preterist camp.
    My mistake - I should have said a-mill, not a-trib. Apart from that confusion (for which, my apologies), the question can stand, since amillennialism is a belief about eschatology.

    I suspect your suggestion about that fifth view is correct.

  5. #24
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    What about those of us who are a-trib ? I did hear there was a fifth kind of trib, but I forget the details.
    I just wanted to thank you for filling up my queue with an entire page of year old threads again.

  6. Amen Obsidian amen'd this post.
  7. #25
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Pre-trib rapture rebuttal. The rapture will not take place before any of the dead in Christ are raised (1 Thessalonians 4:15). And the first resurrection does not take place until that last day (John 6:40) when the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6) begins.
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  8. #26
    tWebber
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    Hi Littlejoe,

    I've been away for ages, and just wanted to come back and stir the pot about Ezekiel's Magog prophecy, but your post caught my eye. It's a bit late to throw in my 2 cents, but figured I'd go for it anyway.

    I am a Pre-Trib, Pre-Millennial Futurist but see a dual-fulfillment of Matt. 24 in that Christ clearly predicted the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, yet also referenced an unprecedented tribulation period (Matt 24:15-30) where the antichrist spoken of in Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks defiles the rebuilt 3rd temple immediately prior to His 2nd Coming (similar to where Isaiah 61 spoke of Christ's 2 comings in the one passage - the 1st Coming, where Jesus came "to preach good news to the poor" and "proclaim the year of the Lord's favour"; the 2nd coming where Jesus proclaims "the Day of Vengeance of our God." Note that when Jesus quoted His fulfillment of the passage as recorded in Luke 4:16-21 that He stopped reading in the middle of the sentence. Why? Because the rest of it would not be fulfilled for another 2,000+ years).

    One of the main problems with the Post-Trib view is that if the rapture is simultaneous with the 2nd Coming, then the separation between believers and unbelievers takes place instantaneously. But after Christ's return, one of His first actions is to separate the believing sheep from the non-believing goats (as recorded in Matt 25). How can this be if the separation has already taken place at His coming? In addition, there will be millions of people born during Christ's 1,000 year Millennial rule, yet Jesus has already told us that in the resurrection we will not be married or given in marriage in our new immortal bodies. If all believers have been raptured at the 2nd coming and all the non-believers are destroyed, who is left to repopulate the planet?

    The Pre-Trib rapture allows for people to come to believe during the 7 years (by the preaching of the angel in Rev 14 with the everlasting gospel, the 2 prophets in Israel in Rev 11, and the 144,000 Jews redeemed in Rev 14 who are instantly converted at the start). These believers will not become members of the Church (because the Body of Christ will have been completed at the rapture), but they will be saved, and of those who survive the tribulation period, they will enter the kingdom in their mortal bodies and raise families for a thousand years.

    I understand the 1st Resurrection to take place in steps. The first stage takes place at the rapture just prior to the beginning of the final 7 years of Daniel's prophecy; then the 2 witnesses at the mid-point of the tribulation; the 144,000 Jews who appear in heaven; and finally the tribulation believers put to death by the antichrist together with all the Old Testament saints from Adam's day to Christ's 2nd Advent. Just before the final Great White Throne judgment and the creation of the New Heavens and Earth, I expect the saved believers from the Millennium will also be given their immortal bodies, though this is not explicitly stated.

    As an afterthought, one of the main problems I have with the Preterist view that Daniel's prophecy of the antichrist defiling the temple was fulfilled in 70 AD, is that since they do not recognize the 70th week as being future, they are forced to consider it as following immediately after the 69th week (when the Messiah is put to death). This would mean 1) that the goals of the 70 weeks as stated in Daniel 9:24 would not have been met (this could only be accomplished by de-literalizing the meaning - ie. I don't see that the Jews have finished their transgression since they still haven't accepted their Messiah and they certainly aren't experiencing everlasting righteousness in any real sense today), and 2) they must end the 490 year span no more than 7 years after Christ's crucifixion. Even if dated at 33 AD (I think it was in 30 AD myself), that would mean the prophecy was concluded in 40 AD - a date of no dramatic significance. Not only that, it would mean that Daniel's prophecy spoke about the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 AD which occurred 40 YEARS OUTSIDE THE STATED SCOPE OF THE PROPHECY. I am aware of no scriptural precedent for such an assumption.

    At least with the Futurist view, the 70th week has been postponed (gaps in prophecy being a legitimate observation, as already noted above with Isa. 61) and by the time it is completed (including the building of the 3rd temple, the future antichrist defiling it, Israel coming to accept Christ at His 2nd Coming) all the promises of Daniel 9:24 will have been literally accomplished. Israel's rebellion will be over, they will experience everlasting righteousness, the antichrist will have been defeated, prophecy would be fulfilled and the new Holy of Holies anointed with Christ's presence. And as icing on the cake, all the events occur in the order predicted in the prophecy.
    Last edited by xcav8tor; 01-13-2019 at 02:32 PM.

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