Question for John Reece: Acts 2:38

[Cow Poke]

The Greek 'eis' means "into" not "in order to be."

There's probably more disagreement about this than there is about who shot Kennedy.

[foudroyant]

I'm sorry but I don't have my books with me at the moment but I know Danker, Thayer the TDNT, the NIDNTT all teach it is for the remission of sins. That is in order to attain them.
This would not be denied if it wasn't for what was being taught in this passage.

[Cow Poke]

It's the classic argument of "for" being like somebody going to prison "for murder".... not so they can COMMIT murder, but BECAUSE they murdered. People a lot smarter than me and you can't agree on this.

[foudroyant]

I can't agree because the evidence doesn't point to eis having that meaning in this passage.
https://www.christiancourier.com/art...quibble-on-eis

[Cow Poke]

I can't agree because the evidence doesn't point to eis having that meaning in this passage.
https://www.christiancourier.com/art...quibble-on-eis

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is. Again, folks a lot smarter than both of us put together can't agree on this. You can keep posting "evidence", and the other side can, too.

[foudroyant]

Opinion? I know Danker, Thayer, the NIDNTT and the TDNT all agree with what I am asserting. So does Wallace (Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics) and Ralph Marcus (Journal of Biblical Literature). Murray Harris thinks the causal use of eis is "unlikely" (NIDNTT 3:1187, Appendix: Prepositions and Theology in the Greek New Testament).

What evidence can be supplied that says eis in this passage means "because of". Robertson? Anyone else? Please let me know.

[One Bad Pig]

OPB,
Cornelius and those with him were already in the New Testament church when they received the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.

What part of "exception to the rule" do you not understand?

[foudroyant]

What exception?
and...
What rule?

[foudroyant]

1. NIDNTT: Liddel-Scott list no casual uses of eis (3:1187, Appendix D3, Murray Harris).
2. NIDNTT: It is significant that A. Oepke, who notes an occasional casual eis in the NT, finds eis to be final in both Matt. 3:11 and Acts 2:38 (eis, TDNT 2:429) (3:1209, Appendix A Prepositions with baptizw 3. eis, Murray Harris)
3. Danker: to denote purpose in order to to
for forgiveness of sins, so that sins might be forgiven Mt 26:28 cp. Mk 1:4; Lk 3:3; Ac 2:38 (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, eis, page 290).
4. G.R. Beasley-Murray: Whatever the relationship between baptism and the gift of the Spirit elsewhere in Acts, there appears to be no doubt as to the intention of Acts 2:38; the penitent believer baptized in the name of Jesus Christ may expect to receive at once the Holy Spirit, even as he is assured the immediate forgiveness of his sins (Baptism in the New Testament, G.R. Beasley-Murray, page 108).

[37818]

Acts 2:38,

. . . in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, . . .

Acts 10:43,

. . . that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

To interpret Acts 2:38 by itself is esiegesis.

[biribiri]

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

There are suitable words available that will denote
a cause or a consequence
I don't think εις is among them.
I'm fairly sure though, that εις can denote a goal or a direction.

Mat 26:27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. Mat 26:28 "For this is My blood of the new [fn] covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Luk 3:3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins,

εις is also used in these passages ... and it would be hard to make a case for the concept that the people referred to have already had their sins forgiven.

'twould seem that the "because" interpretation is solidly founded in wishful thinking.

[foudroyant]

Acts 2:38,

. . . in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, . . .

Acts 10:43,

. . . that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

To interpret Acts 2:38 by itself is esiegesis.

Acts 2:38 - To be water baptized in the name of the Lord for the forgiveness of sins which at that moment would have them receive the Holy Spirit only applied to the Jews of that time period.

Acts 10:43 - These were Gentiles. They obviously received the Holy Spirit before their water baptism which proved they were saved.