Mormonism - is it Christianity?

[Catholicity]

I agree with the last. Which is why I defy anyone to look at my life and then tell me that I am not a follower of Christ.

Fair statement I'll explain

I think this thread was doomed from the start as being unconstitutionally vague.

Even the title is really too vague to debate.

I tend to agree with you Cow Poke. I think what we have here is multiple attacks on Mormonism itself, as opposed to look at the people within the Latter Day Saint sect itself. Here is my proposal. I firmly believe that mormonism stands in the far reaches outside of Orthodox (be you a traditional Protestant Catholic or Orthodox Christian) But I do wish that some here would look at those individuals inside the LDS Church who have wandered in for a variety of reasons, especially those who believe that once you are a child of God you are always a child of God, and remember that those in the LDS sect who once believed and perhaps still cling to Orthodoxy are loved by God, Cherished by God, the Lord still calls them His own, and a friend reminded me of the prodigal son yesterday.....so I ask that those of you who question a person's salvation if they are involved in an outside sect remember God never ever leaves nor forsakes us, even if we forget what we learned in our youth and interpret the Bible incorrectly.

[Cerebrum123]

I tend to agree with you Cow Poke. I think what we have here is multiple attacks on Mormonism itself, as opposed to look at the people within the Latter Day Saint sect itself. Here is my proposal. I firmly believe that mormonism stands in the far reaches outside of Orthodox (be you a traditional Protestant Catholic or Orthodox Christian) But I do wish that some here would look at those individuals inside the LDS Church who have wandered in for a variety of reasons, especially those who believe that once you are a child of God you are always a child of God, and remember that those in the LDS sect who once believed and perhaps still cling to Orthodoxy are loved by God, Cherished by God, the Lord still calls them His own, and a friend reminded me of the prodigal son yesterday.....so I ask that those of you who question a person's salvation if they are involved in an outside sect remember God never ever leaves nor forsakes us, even if we forget what we learned in our youth and interpret the Bible incorrectly.

Due to what Mormonism teaches, I tend to think that there are many LDS who very well could be saved, but that the deeper they get into it's doctrines, the further they get from the truth about Christ, and I see this as dangerous. I have recently been reading the BoM, and so far I see nothing in it that points to inspiration of God, even though there are a couple of verses, that if verified for their supposed age(around 600 B.C. according to the program I downloaded), it would have very interesting prophecy directly concerning Christ, such as His Baptism. With someone who was formerly part of "orthodox"(or even possibly Orthodox) Christianity, then I always hold out hope for like you mentioned above, the Prodigal Son.

[Bill the Cat]

I agree with the last. Which is why I defy anyone to look at my life and then tell me that I am not a follower of Christ.

I'm sure you follow your concept of Christ. The issue is the attributes of the one you follow. For instance, was there ever a time when your Christ was not "a" God? Was there a time when He did not exist as the Son of God? Was there a time when the Father alone was the only god in this existence? These doctrinal points are quite critical and show that we can not possibly be talking of the same being. As much as you do works that you see as good, they are only good if they flow from the one who is good via being connected to the true vine, and not a doctrinally different being. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's how I see it.

[Bill the Cat]

Fair statement I'll explain


I tend to agree with you Cow Poke. I think what we have here is multiple attacks on Mormonism itself, as opposed to look at the people within the Latter Day Saint sect itself. Here is my proposal. I firmly believe that mormonism stands in the far reaches outside of Orthodox (be you a traditional Protestant Catholic or Orthodox Christian) But I do wish that some here would look at those individuals inside the LDS Church who have wandered in for a variety of reasons, especially those who believe that once you are a child of God you are always a child of God, and remember that those in the LDS sect who once believed and perhaps still cling to Orthodoxy are loved by God, Cherished by God, the Lord still calls them His own, and a friend reminded me of the prodigal son yesterday.....so I ask that those of you who question a person's salvation if they are involved in an outside sect remember God never ever leaves nor forsakes us, even if we forget what we learned in our youth and interpret the Bible incorrectly.

The title of the thread is "Mormonism", not "Mormons". Alan was not referring to any specific adherent.

[One Bad Pig]

But to what degree? How strictly or completely does an individual need to follow Christ in obedience in order to qualify as a Christian? What's the threshold? And according to who?

In my opinion, those who claim to follow Christ can generally be called Christians. However, the end goal of Mormon exaltation is independent godhood over your own 'creation'; I don't see how that's ultimately following Christ. Others are free to hold different opinions.

How does one verify that the litmus test by which one individual (you or me or Walter Martin) labels other individuals or groups "certified Christian" or "definitely not Christian" is THE correct litmus test?

In other words, how does one know that the litmus test is objective and authoritative?

The litmus test, as it has always been, is regarding Orthodox Christianity, not Christianity per se. The test is, "do you believe what the Church has always believed?" It has been objectively and authoritatively defined by the seven Ecumenical Councils. There is a more subjective test for relative heterodoxy, decided under the authority of the bishop; Trinitarian converts to Orthodoxy who have been baptized may be received into communion with chrismation alone at his discretion.

[Alan McDougall]

Hi Mormons say they follow Christ but it is "not" the Christ of Christianity it is a mortal being the result of sexual intercourse between of man of flesh and bone from another planet. Does this sound remotely like the real Divine Jesus? Also just to follow Jesus is not sufficiant, one must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven!!

http://www.mmoutreach.org/mormon/art..._christian.htm

Is Mormonism Christian? Absolutely not it is as silly as Scientology in my opinion!!

The Mormon Connection....
The articles featured in this section are all written from a Christian perspective and explain the differences between Mormonism and orthodox Christianity.

.We believe each person involved with, or examining a religious group should have all the facts and know the history of the group you may be involved with. Always remember...............

If you embrace an organized religion without knowing it's history, a stranger is claiming your faith.

Questions and Answers ...

Is Mormonism Christian?

This tract and questionnaire is designed both to inform both Mormons and non- Mormons about the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, better known as the Mormon Church. As you compare your answers to the questions with the answers that follow please bear in mind this question.


Questions: True or False:

1. Mormonism teaches that there is more than one God.

True or False?

True. This is an direct conflict with what God Himself says on this subject in the Bible (Isaiah 44:6 and 8, 45:5, 6, 18, 21, 22). This also mysteriously contradicts the Book of Mormon (Alma 11:22, 26-31, and 35). Who is right: God, or the president of the Mormon Church?

2. Mormonism teaches that Jesus Christ is the spirit-brother of Lucifer.

True or False?

True. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 13, page 282. This doctrine goes hand-in-hand with the teaching that Christ is a created being and not eternal God, the Creator (John 1:3, 10; Nehemiah 9:6) This, too, contradicts the Book of Mormon (Helaman 14:12, Mosiah 3: 8 and 5:15).


3. Mormonism teaches that Jesus Christ was born after sexual intercourse between God the Father and Mary (thereby denying the virgin birth)

True or False?

True. See Journal of discourses, Volume 4, page 218, for an example. Many Mormons are unfamiliar with this doctrine of their church, but this is nonetheless a cardinal teaching. This contradicts both the Bible (Matthew 1:23) and the Book of Mormon (Alma 7:10). Beginning to see a pattern?

4. Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

True or False?

True. See Doctrine and Covenants, Section 130. The Bible, as usual, disagrees with both Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church (John 4:24, Luke 24:39, Jeremiah 23:24).


5. Mormonism teaches that God the Father was once a man.

True or False?

True. Joseph Smith, prophet and founder of the Mormon Church, taught this in the "King Follett Discourse," his last major address, and the Mormon Church teaches it to this very day (Journal of Discourses, Volume 6, page 5 and 6). This is a violent contradiction with not only the bible, but with the Book of Mormon as well ( Moroni 8:18, Mormon 9:9).

6. Mormonism teaches that we can become gods, and rule over our own planets.

True or False?

True. This is what the Mormon temples are for (see reference cited in answer 5 above; see also Doctrine and Covenants, section 132 in order to understand the direct connection between Mormon godhead and the practice of polygamy in the LDS Church prior to 1890.)


7. Mormonism taught for half - century that Adam is our Father and our God.

True or False?

True. See Journal of discourses, Volume 1, pages 50 to 51: Volume 4, page 1; and Volume 5, page 331, for examples. Whether Mormons deny it or not is immaterial; that it was taught is historical fact.



8. Mormonism teaches that Jesus Christ was a polygamist.

True or False?

True. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 4, page 259.


9. Mormonism teaches that Negroes have dark skin because they are cursed by God, and are an inferior race.

True or False?

True. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 7, page 290. (see also Mormon Doctrine, 10th printing, pages 526-527, in which the general inferiority of the Negro is explained.

This basic doctrine has not been changed---the only difference between the Negroes situation in Mormonism now and prior to June 9th 1978, is that he is entitled to certain privileges which were formerly withheld.)

10. Mormonism teaches that one "should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ." But that is with a false Christ

True or False?

True. See "Church News" , Mar. 20, 1982, page 5. This statement was made at a Brigham Young University Devotional March 2, 1982 by Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie. McConkie also made an attack on those who stress a personal relationship with Christ on Nov. 18, 1981 according to Seventh East Press. Such teaching is out of harmony with the Bible. Matt. 11:28, Rev:3:20, Phil. 3:8:10, as well as the Book of Mormon: III Nephi 11:16, 17; 19:18)

11. Mormonism has admitted that they worship a different Jesus and have a concept of the Godhead foreign to Historic Christianity.

True or False?

True. Elder Bernard P. Brockbank of the first Quorum of Seventy stated..."It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshiped by the Mormons of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." ...These two concepts of the trinity and their attributes are completely different." May 1977 Ensign Magazine page 26. In light of Corinthians 11:3-4 we urge Latter-day Saints to come to the REAL JESUS.


Dear friend, As Christians, our purpose for delivering this article is, because we are commanded by Jesus to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature" Mark 16:15.

The Biblical view of the gospel is that Jesus came, was crucified buried, and rose on the third day, being victorious over sin and death. 1 Cor. 15: 1-5.

1. The Bible first gives us a warning:

It tells us that all have sinned and will be judged. Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Hebrews 9:27 says "It is appointed unto man once to die but after this, the judgment."

[Alan McDougall]

.: ARE MORMONS “CHRISTIANS”?

“We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense… it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.” —John Taylor (3rd LDS Prophet), 1858, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 167

Why does the LDS Church of today seek to be included with “Christian” churches when Joseph Smith’s First Vision and the Book of Mormon claim these churches are “of the Devil”?

JOSEPH SMITH’S FIRST VISION:

•Churches = “join none of them, for they were all wrong”
•Creeds = “All...were an abomination in his sight”
•Professors = “were all corrupt” (Joseph Smith History 1:18-19)

“And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil...” —1 Nephi 14:10, Book of Mormon

Did Jesus fail to preserve His True Church? “…I will build MY church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” —Matthew 16:18

[RBerman]

.: ARE MORMONS “CHRISTIANS”?

“We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense… it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.” —John Taylor (3rd LDS Prophet), 1858, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 167

Why does the LDS Church of today seek to be included with “Christian” churches when Joseph Smith’s First Vision and the Book of Mormon claim these churches are “of the Devil”?

JOSEPH SMITH’S FIRST VISION:

•Churches = “join none of them, for they were all wrong”
•Creeds = “All...were an abomination in his sight”
•Professors = “were all corrupt” (Joseph Smith History 1:18-19)

“And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil...” —1 Nephi 14:10, Book of Mormon

Did Jesus fail to preserve His True Church? “…I will build MY church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” —Matthew 16:18

There's no question that the first generation of Mormons gathered disaffected folks under the pretext of being the only "true believers" who were persecuted by the "heathen" all around them. Later generations have worked hard to ignore that rhetoric and cast themselves as "Christians, just like you" in a way that would have appalled Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

[nrajeff]

In my opinion, those who claim to follow Christ can generally be called Christians. However, the end goal of Mormon exaltation is independent godhood over your own 'creation'; I don't see how that's ultimately following Christ. ...

I think I could make a decent argument that it would qualify as following Christ. Maybe I will start a thread to debate it so it's not a derailment here.

The litmus test, as it has always been, is regarding Orthodox Christianity, not Christianity per se. The test is, "do you believe what the Church has always believed?" It has been objectively and authoritatively defined by the seven Ecumenical Councils.

That could work as "THE" litmus test.....if we first assume that the 7 Councils were basically inerrant in what they decided. If a person is skeptical regarding whether the Councils stayed true to the original, authoritative doctrines, then they could be seen as part of the problem instead of the cure.

There is a more subjective test for relative heterodoxy, decided under the authority of the bishop; Trinitarian converts to Orthodoxy who have been baptized may be received into communion with chrismation alone at his discretion.

I think Peterson/Ricks may have cited some of that in the part of their book (Offenders For a Word) that supports the idea that in early Christianity, bishops were seen as an important part of the hierarchy.

[Alan McDougall]

•God Is Your Loving Heavenly Father ◦Mormon "Gods" existed before Heavenly Father.
◦LDS "Heavenly Father" did not exist from eternity.
◦God has a "wife" in Heaven.

[Alan McDougall]

•God Is Your Loving Heavenly Father ◦Mormon "Gods" existed before Heavenly Father.
◦LDS "Heavenly Father" did not exist from eternity.
◦God has a "wife" in Heaven.

•Mormon.org does not tell you that Mormons DO NOT believe that God the Father is the first God who has ever existed. Many outside the LDS Church do not know that when Mormons speak of “Heavenly Father,” they are not speaking of the Biblical God who says: “I am he: before me there was no God formed…” (Isaiah 43:10) Rather, on the contrary, Mormonism teaches that God the Father had a Father “God” before Him and that “God” had a Father “God” before Him and so forth on backward into eternity. Thus, Mormon Prophets and Apostles have claimed:


“I will preach on the plurality of Gods… Our text says, ‘And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father.’ The Apostles have discovered that there were Gods above… My object was to preach the scriptures, and preach the doctrine they contain, there being a God above, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” —Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370

“Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father, until we come to a stop where we cannot go further, because of our limited capacity to understand.” —LDS Apostle Joseph Fielding Smith (who became Mormonism’s 10th Prophet) Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, p. 47

What

[Cow Poke]

Hi Mormons say they follow Christ but it is "not" the Christ of Christianity it is a mortal being the result of sexual intercourse between of man of flesh and bone from another planet. Does this sound remotely like the real Divine Jesus? Also just to follow Jesus is not sufficiant, one must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven!!

http://www.mmoutreach.org/mormon/art..._christian.htm

Is Mormonism Christian? Absolutely not it is as silly as Scientology in my opinion!!

The Mormon Connection....
The articles featured in this section are all written from a Christian perspective and explain the differences between Mormonism and orthodox Christianity.

.We believe each person involved with, or examining a religious group should have all the facts and know the history of the group you may be involved with. Always remember...............

If you embrace an organized religion without knowing it's history, a stranger is claiming your faith.

Questions and Answers ...

Is Mormonism Christian?

This tract and questionnaire is designed both to inform both Mormons and non- Mormons about the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, better known as the Mormon Church. As you compare your answers to the questions with the answers that follow please bear in mind this question.


Questions: True or False:

1. Mormonism teaches that there is more than one God.

True or False?

True. This is an direct conflict with what God Himself says on this subject in the Bible (Isaiah 44:6 and 8, 45:5, 6, 18, 21, 22). This also mysteriously contradicts the Book of Mormon (Alma 11:22, 26-31, and 35). Who is right: God, or the president of the Mormon Church?

2. Mormonism teaches that Jesus Christ is the spirit-brother of Lucifer.

True or False?

True. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 13, page 282. This doctrine goes hand-in-hand with the teaching that Christ is a created being and not eternal God, the Creator (John 1:3, 10; Nehemiah 9:6) This, too, contradicts the Book of Mormon (Helaman 14:12, Mosiah 3: 8 and 5:15).


3. Mormonism teaches that Jesus Christ was born after sexual intercourse between God the Father and Mary (thereby denying the virgin birth)

True or False?

True. See Journal of discourses, Volume 4, page 218, for an example. Many Mormons are unfamiliar with this doctrine of their church, but this is nonetheless a cardinal teaching. This contradicts both the Bible (Matthew 1:23) and the Book of Mormon (Alma 7:10). Beginning to see a pattern?

4. Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.

True or False?

True. See Doctrine and Covenants, Section 130. The Bible, as usual, disagrees with both Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church (John 4:24, Luke 24:39, Jeremiah 23:24).


5. Mormonism teaches that God the Father was once a man.

True or False?

True. Joseph Smith, prophet and founder of the Mormon Church, taught this in the "King Follett Discourse," his last major address, and the Mormon Church teaches it to this very day (Journal of Discourses, Volume 6, page 5 and 6). This is a violent contradiction with not only the bible, but with the Book of Mormon as well ( Moroni 8:18, Mormon 9:9).

6. Mormonism teaches that we can become gods, and rule over our own planets.

True or False?

True. This is what the Mormon temples are for (see reference cited in answer 5 above; see also Doctrine and Covenants, section 132 in order to understand the direct connection between Mormon godhead and the practice of polygamy in the LDS Church prior to 1890.)


7. Mormonism taught for half - century that Adam is our Father and our God.

True or False?

True. See Journal of discourses, Volume 1, pages 50 to 51: Volume 4, page 1; and Volume 5, page 331, for examples. Whether Mormons deny it or not is immaterial; that it was taught is historical fact.



8. Mormonism teaches that Jesus Christ was a polygamist.

True or False?

True. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 4, page 259.


9. Mormonism teaches that Negroes have dark skin because they are cursed by God, and are an inferior race.

True or False?

True. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 7, page 290. (see also Mormon Doctrine, 10th printing, pages 526-527, in which the general inferiority of the Negro is explained.

This basic doctrine has not been changed---the only difference between the Negroes situation in Mormonism now and prior to June 9th 1978, is that he is entitled to certain privileges which were formerly withheld.)

10. Mormonism teaches that one "should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ." But that is with a false Christ

True or False?

True. See "Church News" , Mar. 20, 1982, page 5. This statement was made at a Brigham Young University Devotional March 2, 1982 by Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie. McConkie also made an attack on those who stress a personal relationship with Christ on Nov. 18, 1981 according to Seventh East Press. Such teaching is out of harmony with the Bible. Matt. 11:28, Rev:3:20, Phil. 3:8:10, as well as the Book of Mormon: III Nephi 11:16, 17; 19:18)

11. Mormonism has admitted that they worship a different Jesus and have a concept of the Godhead foreign to Historic Christianity.

True or False?

True. Elder Bernard P. Brockbank of the first Quorum of Seventy stated..."It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshiped by the Mormons of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." ...These two concepts of the trinity and their attributes are completely different." May 1977 Ensign Magazine page 26. In light of Corinthians 11:3-4 we urge Latter-day Saints to come to the REAL JESUS.


Dear friend, As Christians, our purpose for delivering this article is, because we are commanded by Jesus to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature" Mark 16:15.

The Biblical view of the gospel is that Jesus came, was crucified buried, and rose on the third day, being victorious over sin and death. 1 Cor. 15: 1-5.

1. The Bible first gives us a warning:

It tells us that all have sinned and will be judged. Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Hebrews 9:27 says "It is appointed unto man once to die but after this, the judgment."

Alan,

Seriously, when you get into these long slates of questions, I tend to just skip the whole post. I'm wondering if others do the same. It's really best just to deal with one or two issues at a time.

CP

[Bill the Cat]

Alan,

Seriously, when you get into these long slates of questions, I tend to just skip the whole post. I'm wondering if others do the same. It's really best just to deal with one or two issues at a time.

CP

And, we generally don't allow reposting entire pages, like the long one, which is from here: http://www.mmoutreach.org/mormon/art..._christian.htm