I disagree with "Stand your Ground"

[Cow Poke]

I'm a lifelong member of the NRA, former police officer, gun collector, enthusiast, "shootist", amateur gunsmith, concealed carry license holder, 2nd amendment supporter.....

But I think the "stand your ground" doctrine is wrong headed.

I was one of the very first recipients of the "concealed carry" permits issued in Texas. I have been through the certification process a half dozen times, and I have sponsored a number of groups to go through the class. I have served as a range safety officer for a number of these classes, and CONSISTENT in EVERY one of these classes I have attended or helped teach, there is a fundamental emphasis on DE-ESCALATING the probability of having to use your weapon.

It's not just about "gun control - take a good stance, hold the gun firmly in both hands, take a breath, hold it... squeeze the trigger and fire between heartbeats..."

It's about a whole mentality and psychology where you want to DECREASE the likelihood that you will have to shoot. The "stand your ground" doctrine seems to fly, IMO, against that philosophy, seemingly emboldening the gun holder to "not back down regardless".

I realize Texas has a reputation as a "shoot 'em up" venue, but the Concealed Carry process in Texas does nothing to encourage that. The "Castle Doctrine" was added during the time I have been a concealed carry permit holder, and I agree with that. It bascially states (over simplifying) that "A man's home is his castle, and he has a right to defend it, and that "castle" extends to his car, etc". (there's more to it than that, but let's start there)

I'm also fully aware that the ANTI-GUN folks will probably be against ALL of this, but I'll leave that for you to say.

IF you are pro-gun, do you support....

Concealed Carry laws?
The "Castle Doctrine"?
The "Stand your Ground" doctrine?

And, I'll go ahead and answer my own questions... yes, yes, and not so much. I guess I'll go ahead and throw a poll into the mix, so I don't have to manually keep tally.

[Soyeong]

Care to to explain the "Stand your Ground" doctrine?

[Xru]

I support free carrying of firearms ever where except where it'd be stupid like bars, the courts, etc.

Also no concealed permits required. Basically just like the law is now in Arizona.

So I voted the last one.

[Xru]

It'd also be cool if Congress passed a law that every adult in the US would e required to own at least one gun.

[Adrift]

This might be off topic, and I might get flamed for this opinion, but, as cool as guns are, in the end... to me... they're instruments of death. Their main purpose is to snuff out and cease the existence of another being. Every time I find myself fascinated by them (I know a lot of gun freaks) my mind goes back to Jesus' words "those who live by the sword, die by the sword" (heck... that saying is the main reason I haven't bought a replica ancient sword yet either).

I know there are a number of great arguments for owning guns, and if you're a hunter, I think the need is okay there (even though I find hunting generally distasteful). And I'm not the type to openly protest gun ownership. And I'm open to admitting maybe I'm wrong about my opinion. I'm not squeamish around guns either. I was in Security Forces in the military and was decent with the M16A2, M60 machine gun, the Beretta 9MM, and a number of other firearms... Heck, I'm ironically even a huge fan of the show Top Shot.

But, I don't know... I guess I see the murder rate in the US compared the Europe which is comparatively gun free, and I can't help but wonder if our nation has a problem of "living by the sword".

So... Yeah. I'm not voting in the poll right now cause I don't think that'd be fair. To be honest, it doesn't make sense to me that there should even be a need to make laws like Stand-Your-Ground if you're allowing your citizens to carry guns out in the open anyways. I mean, by handing someone a carry permit, you're essentially saying that "we trust this guy enough to know when to use it". All these goofy laws like Castle Doctrine, and Stand Your Ground were created so that people didn't get their pants sued off in our over-litigious country for doing what they thought was right.

[ke7ejx]

I am very pro 2nd Amendment. I have a concealed weapon license and enjoy Oregon's open carry laws. Oregon does not have a SYG law, but if we shoot someone in our home, they had better land in the house and there better be no doubt that our lives were in jeopardy. I don't enjoy the idea of shooting to kill but if I had to....

[Xru]

This might be off topic, and I might get flamed for this opinion, but, as cool as guns are, in the end... to me... they're instruments of death. Their main purpose is to snuff out and cease the existence of another being. Every time I find myself fascinated by them (I know a lot of gun freaks) my mind goes back to Jesus' words "those who live by the sword, die by the sword" (heck... that saying is the main reason I haven't bought a replica ancient sword yet either).

I know there are a number of great arguments for owning guns, and if you're a hunter, I think the need is okay there (even though I find hunting generally distasteful). And I'm not the type to openly protest gun ownership. And I'm open to admitting maybe I'm wrong about my opinion. I'm not squeamish around guns either. I was in Security Forces in the military and was decent with the M16A2, M60 machine gun, the Beretta 9MM, and a number of other firearms... Heck, I'm ironically even a huge fan of the show Top Shot.

But, I don't know... I guess I see the murder rate in the US compared the Europe which is comparatively gun free, and I can't help but wonder if our nation has a problem of "living by the sword".

So... Yeah. I'm not voting in the poll right now cause I don't think that'd be fair. To be honest, it doesn't make sense to me that there should even be a need to make laws like Stand-Your-Ground if you're allowing your citizens to carry guns out in the open anyways. I mean, by handing someone a carry permit, you're essentially saying that "we trust this guy enough to know when to use it". All these goofy laws like Castle Doctrine, and Stand Your Ground were created so that people didn't get their pants sued off in our over-litigious country for doing what they thought was right.

Seems reasonable Adrift.

[Cow Poke]

Care to to explain the "Stand your Ground" doctrine?

Sorry --- It varies from state to state, but basically it means that you do not have to retreat from a threat before using deadly force when you reasonably believe your life or the life of others is in danger.

[Cow Poke]

This might be off topic, and I might get flamed for this opinion, but, as cool as guns are, in the end... to me... they're instruments of death. Their main purpose is to snuff out and cease the existence of another being. Every time I find myself fascinated by them (I know a lot of gun freaks) my mind goes back to Jesus' words "those who live by the sword, die by the sword" (heck... that saying is the main reason I haven't bought a replica ancient sword yet either).

I know there are a number of great arguments for owning guns, and if you're a hunter, I think the need is okay there (even though I find hunting generally distasteful). And I'm not the type to openly protest gun ownership. And I'm open to admitting maybe I'm wrong about my opinion. I'm not squeamish around guns either. I was in Security Forces in the military and was decent with the M16A2, M60 machine gun, the Beretta 9MM, and a number of other firearms... Heck, I'm ironically even a huge fan of the show Top Shot.

But, I don't know... I guess I see the murder rate in the US compared the Europe which is comparatively gun free, and I can't help but wonder if our nation has a problem of "living by the sword".

So... Yeah. I'm not voting in the poll right now cause I don't think that'd be fair. To be honest, it doesn't make sense to me that there should even be a need to make laws like Stand-Your-Ground if you're allowing your citizens to carry guns out in the open anyways. I mean, by handing someone a carry permit, you're essentially saying that "we trust this guy enough to know when to use it". All these goofy laws like Castle Doctrine, and Stand Your Ground were created so that people didn't get their pants sued off in our over-litigious country for doing what they thought was right.

I see no reason to flame this, Adrift --- you're entitled to your opinion, and you expressed it / backed it well.

[Adrift]

I see no reason to flame this, Adrift --- you're entitled to your opinion, and you expressed it / backed it well.

Thank you. Its just that I know its one of those issues people can get passionate about. Its sort of why I stay out of the political and civics section completely for the most part.

[Soyeong]

Sorry --- It varies from state to state, but basically it means that you do not have to retreat from a threat before using deadly force when you reasonably believe your life or the life of others is in danger.

Hmm...I can see reasons for it, but I agree that it has the potential to increase armed conflict.

[Cow Poke]

Thank you. Its just that I know its one of those issues people can get passionate about. Its sort of why I stay out of the political and civics section completely for the most part.

"as iron sharpens iron..." I appreciate your perspective, and I'm not so aggressively "pro-gun" that I would agree with laws (like some cities have tried to enact) that OBLIGATE people to carry weapons.

<Sarcasm>

Heck, the LAST person I would want having a gun is some wacky wild-eyed LIBERAL!

This is a fair warning to those sarcastically impaired the preceding text was written in jest.

Seriously, I think guns should only be handled by people trained in their safety, and with the proper respect for the power they represent.

It has been years since I have hunted, but I have never intentionally killed an animal I didn't plan on consuming, and over which God had given me dominion.

Question.... if you were drafted (back in the days when we had a draft) to serve in the Armed Forces, how would you have handled the fact that you would be trained in firearms?

[Cow Poke]

Hmm...I can see reasons for it, but I agree that it has the potential to increase armed conflict.

Yeah, it just seems to me to be more of a "I AIN'T BACKING DOWN, BRO" kind of thing that escalates the situation. All the Concealed Carry classes I've been involved with even include some psychology elements to teach you to "ramp down" the situation. And, since alcohol is often involved in the aggressor, it is wiser (IMO) to back away from the situation and turn it over (where possible) to local law enforcement.

[Adrift]

Question.... if you were drafted (back in the days when we had a draft) to serve in the Armed Forces, how would you have handled the fact that you would be trained in firearms?

Well, like I said, I was trained in firearms. If I was drafted around the age I finally ended up volunteering (23) I'd probably just shrug and do my duty. Today... I don't know. I'd probably be a conscientious objector, but its not something I've really thought about.

[Cow Poke]

Well, like I said, I was trained in firearms. If I was drafted around the age I finally ended up volunteering (23) I'd probably just shrug and do my duty. Today... I don't know. I'd probably be a conscientious objector, but its not something I've really thought about.

Interesting. Thanks. We change, don't we? YEARS ago, I would probably have blasted you as a liberal pinko commie sympathizer piece of slime... blah blah blah.....