Prove to me that Islam is a religion of peace and love?

[Alan McDougall]

Prove to me that Islam is a religion of peace and love?, epecially in the light of present history/

[RBerman]

Islam is like Christianity in some respects. One of them is that people who want to be violent can find things within its religious texts to justify their stance. And those who want to be peaeful can find support for that as well. Muslims who want "peace and love" will just quote different parts of the Qur'an than Muslims who employ violence will quote.

[Soyeong]

Prove to me that Islam is a religion of peace and love?, epecially in the light of present history/

I'd go so far to say that if you looked at a majority of the Muslims living today, you would find they followed a religion that promotes peace and love. Unfortunately, it can also be used to promote violence and Mullahs who hold this view have hijacked the religion. They are a blight on other Muslims just as they are a blight on the rest of the world because other Muslims live in fear of speaking out against them.

[Cerebrum123]

Islam is like Christianity in some respects. One of them is that people who want to be violent can find things within its religious texts to justify their stance. And those who want to be peaeful can find support for that as well. Muslims who want "peace and love" will just quote different parts of the Qur'an than Muslims who employ violence will quote.

Yes, that is true, but if you take into the Islamic doctrine of abrogation into account, then you simply have all of the "peaceful" verses left in a garbage bin.

I'd go so far to say that if you looked at a majority of the Muslims living today, you would find they followed a religion that promotes peace and love. Unfortunately, it can also be used to promote violence and Mullahs who hold this view have hijacked the religion. They are a blight on other Muslims just as they are a blight on the rest of the world because other Muslims live in fear of speaking out against them.

As in my reply to RBerman, I mention the doctrine of abrogation, and how if followed, leads to the peaceful verses no longer being in effect. This makes it so that the mullahs aren't high-jacking the religion of Islam, in fact, they are teaching what we would call "orthodox" within Christianity. The Quran is quite a confusing book to begin with, but once you throw in abrogation, you get a whole new can of worms, add to that the Hadith, and the Sira, and you have a mess that would be best left avoided. Unfortunately, present activities, as well as past activities by Muslims, including Mohammed himself, show that Islam is not about peace, but about spreading by the faith they preach by the sword, and eventually world domination. When Mohammed was preaching in Mecca, he had peaceful verses, and nice things to say about Christians and Jews, once he moved to Medina to avoid the persecution that the other Arabs had done, he turned into a violent, and sadistic pirate, always looking for more loot, more power, and more women(except for his favorite "wife" Aisha, who was 6 at the time of the wedding, and 9 when the marriage was :consummated"). In fact, in one of the attacks he did on the nearby Jewish settlements, he forced one of the women there to marry him. This was shortly after he had had entire family, and I even believe her husband, executed. One of the ahadith(I believe it was one of the ahadith anyway, might have been in the Sira), it talks about how one of his soldiers had stayed outside the tent all night, because he was worried that she would likely try and get revenge on him for what he had done.
After that, you have to take into account some of Mohammed's own actions, like having all of his critics assassinated, one of which, was a mother who was killed in front of her children. Many Muslims today are peaceful, and really do live according to the peaceful passages, but unfortunately, history, as well as their own doctrines declares them wrong on Islam being a "religion of peace".

[RBerman]

Yes, that is true, but if you take into the Islamic doctrine of abrogation into account, then you simply have all of the "peaceful" verses left in a garbage bin.

That is true. Muslims who want to be violent will probably promote the doctrine of abgrogation. And Muslims who don't, will not.

[Cerebrum123]

That is true. Muslims who want to be violent will probably promote the doctrine of abgrogation. And Muslims who don't, will not.

Those who disagree with it would have to pit themselves against the Quran.

Surah 16:101

When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.


Surah 2:106:

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

Surah 13:39:

Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book

Not that I blame them for being against it or anything, but they are fighting an uphill battle, and against themselves.

[RBerman]

Those who disagree with it would have to pit themselves against the Quran.

Surah 16:101

When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.


Surah 2:106:

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

Surah 13:39:

Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book

Not that I blame them for being against it or anything, but they are fighting an uphill battle, and against themselves.

I would not want a Muslim telling me how the Bible ought to be interpreted, and vice versa. I'm certainly not going to discourage Muslims who favor a peaceful interpretation of the Qur'an.

[Cerebrum123]

I would not want a Muslim telling me how the Bible ought to be interpreted, and vice versa. I'm certainly not going to discourage Muslims who favor a peaceful interpretation of the Qur'an.

I understand that, I was just trying to point out both the historical, and theological reasons for this interpretation. I have been studying this subject for a while, and I have seen that Islam, historically and theologically speaking, is not about peace.

[RBerman]

I understand that, I was just trying to point out both the historical, and theological reasons for this interpretation. I have been studying this subject for a while, and I have seen that Islam, historically and theologically speaking, is not about peace.

Islam is a complex global religion rarely (never?) found in a "pure" form, but rather mixed with folk religions and local political tendencies as varied as the nations in which it's found. You'll have no trouble finding violent Muslims who justify their violence by appealing to the Qur'an. But the same can be said of violent Christians, violent Hindus, and so on. Those bent on power will use all means at their disposal, including religion, when convenient.

[Cerebrum123]

Islam is a complex global religion rarely (never?) found in a "pure" form, but rather mixed with folk religions and local political tendencies as varied as the nations in which it's found. You'll have no trouble finding violent Muslims who justify their violence by appealing to the Qur'an. But the same can be said of violent Christians, violent Hindus, and so on. Those bent on power will use all means at their disposal, including religion, when convenient.

I understand that, but AFAIK, none of those other religions started out with their founder as a conqueror, and who did some particularly nasty things. Buddha was completely peaceful, Jesus taught people to love their enemies, but I don't know enough about Hinduism's origin to say on that one. Basically, those who say that Islam is a religion of peace, and that Mohammed was the greatest person to ever live, are either ignorant of Islam's history, or are just basing it on wishful thinking, rather than on what the truth is.

[Sparko]

I agree. Mohammad converted by attacking caravans and building an army of converts at the point of a sword, literally.

convert or die.

[Alan McDougall]

I agree. Mohammad converted by attacking caravans and building an army of converts at the point of a sword, literally.

convert or die.

Is the above true?

Christianities history of violence during the dark ages was hideous with burning of witches, forced conversions under the threat of death etc, but this did not reflect Jesus gospel of peace and love and was a perversion of Christianity especially by the Roman Catholic Church of the time. Most world religions at their core have an underlying fundamental doctrine of peace, in fact I can’t think of one that does not. I am not well versed about Islam its history or if Mohammad preached peace and love or righteousness and forced conversion to that faith?

Thus is the recent spate of suicide bombings and violence an aberration or perversion of a faith that is really at its core peaceful or is it something that must be adhered to according to the holy Koran?

Please enlighten me, especially from Moslem members?

[Cerebrum123]

Is the above true?

Christianities history of violence during the dark ages was hideous with burning of witches, forced conversions under the threat of death etc, but this did not reflect Jesus gospel of peace and love and was a perversion of Christianity especially by the Roman Catholic Church of the time. Most world religions at their core have an underlying fundamental doctrine of peace, in fact I can’t think of one that does not. I am not well versed about Islam its history or if Mohammad preached peace and love or righteousness and forced conversion to that faith?

Thus is the recent spate of suicide bombings and violence an aberration or perversion of a faith that is really at its core peaceful or is it something that must be adhered to according to the holy Koran?

Please enlighten me, especially from Moslem members?

What Sparko said is true, and today's peaceful Muslims are the aberration when it comes to Islamic history. Also, the "Dark Ages" is a misnomer, and they have been HIGHLY exaggerated in a way to make Christianity look bad. The Inquisitions and such, were not any worse than any "secular" government at the time, and even secular governments had outlawed things like witchcraft in many countries. The witches then, were not like what people tend to think of today, with things like Wicca around. Back then, they were trying to use their magic to harm others. As for not knowing of a religion with peace at it's core, you now know that at least originally, Islam did not have that core, except for a VERY short period in Mecca with Mohammed. After that, warfare and bloodshed became the driving force of Islam, and has been that way for a long time. Even now you have Muslims who are trying to do what the Quran says, and kill all of the "kafir"(non-Muslims), and make Islam the only religion on earth.


ETA: Not many Muslims post on here as of late, but maybe you will get an answer from one eventually.

[Dan Zebiri]

Brethren in Christ and friends,

I tend to agree with Cerebrum. One or two of you are trying to ask muslims their inputs to this whole 'peaceful Islam' facade.

Why not also include Ex-Muslims in your list?

Because these (ex-muslim) folks have been through the Islamic system, many of them quite deeply, as that is what the religion dictates them to do, both formally and informally. Being insiders many of them can speak with convicting authenticity for having personalized and internalized islamic precepts devotedly.

Yet, as ex-Muslims *their stories* would be remarkably eye-opening for everyone who wants to understand the answers to the question asked by this particular thread. These people have given themselves and their lives to this religion previously, and have also LEFT and abandoned Islam, finally!

Their journeys through this religion would be fascinating to learn from, and should never be discounted by anybody, not the least the Muslims themselves.

Of course their previous co-religionists would label them as infidels, apostates and worthy of persecution and death as enjoined by their own hadiths and by quoting Muhammad their founder. BTW, Such violent reactions and punishments on Christian apostates would not be found or enjoined by Christ Himself or consistently taught in the Gospels anywhere!

One such story would be that of Mousab Hassan Yousef, the son of one of the core founders of Hamas, the islamic and islamist militant group pushing the true agenda of islam.

His true story of quitting and abandoning Islam is reported by Fox News here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402483,00.html

The views and voices of these special people should be heard, noted and learnt from, without fear or favor, and may we all support them, because all they will get from their previous religionists are attacks, threats and intimidations to get them to 'repent, recant' and to return to Islam.

Dan.

What Sparko said is true, and today's peaceful Muslims are the aberration when it comes to Islamic history. Also, the "Dark Ages" is a misnomer, and they have been HIGHLY exaggerated in a way to make Christianity look bad. The Inquisitions and such, were not any worse than any "secular" government at the time, and even secular governments had outlawed things like witchcraft in many countries. The witches then, were not like what people tend to think of today, with things like Wicca around. Back then, they were trying to use their magic to harm others. As for not knowing of a religion with peace at it's core, you now know that at least originally, Islam did not have that core, except for a VERY short period in Mecca with Mohammed. After that, warfare and bloodshed became the driving force of Islam, and has been that way for a long time. Even now you have Muslims who are trying to do what the Quran says, and kill all of the "kafir"(non-Muslims), and make Islam the only religion on earth.


ETA: Not many Muslims post on here as of late, but maybe you will get an answer from one eventually.

[Cerebrum123]

Why not also include Ex-Muslims in your list?

Why didn't I think of that.
You did a good job on this one Dan, keep up the good work.